*Relic* OKW balance preview mod v2 feedback

I just played an AI match as OKW with the patch preview, and I've got to say OKW feels really good now. Maybe a little too good. I was able to get every tech building up in about ten minutes (obviously this is a tech rush, so no vehicles), but that could just be because the AI let me take a big chunk of the map. Still, imagine how fast King Tigers are going to come out in team games. I think tech costs might have to be adjusted, but that's all. I really like the new tech placements, too. Right now, OKW gets better tanks than Ost while also getting them earlier, while having full income. Yikes.

I like OKW having full resource income as it allows the faction to be balanced much more easily in the future, and makes them feel more like a flexible faction. I want OKW to be balanced around full income. The reduced income justified a lot of weird design choices about the faction. I was about to get livid, because I thought Relic meant they moved the King Tiger to a commander when I read the patch notes, but I'm glad to see that isn't the case. Crisis averted.

My volks absolutely smashed infantry sections now. Again, maybe that's just bad AI micro, but I have a feeling Tommies might be underpowered now just from what I saw. Maybe undo some of the nerfs to infantry sections? I'm pretty neutral on the kubel change. I fucking hated them before because of their garbage pathing making them unreliable MG platforms, but with them gone, dealing with blobs is going to be a massive headache without the flak halftrack.

As far as other factions go, I haven't tested. I appreciate what Relic is trying to do with getting rid of elite riflemen and elite troops, but I just don't see the point of Rifle Company now without it and flamethrowers. They just delegated the commander to "get nothing at all useful until Easy 8s" mode. And I hate timed infantry-munitions abilities, so I know already I'm never going to use that shitty Fire Up! ability. Ever. They might as well have just removed elite riflemen and replaced it with nothing. And really, same goes for Elite Troops Doctrine. I don't see anyone using it again. They might as well just remove it from the game.

Also, how many times are they going to nerf the bloody Crocodile, and well, the British in general? Yeah, the Croc used to be OP, but I don't think nerfing it every patch is necessary. Jesus. Relic isn't going to be satisfied until it spits hot bath water and dies to a panzerfaust. I also think heavy engineers shouldn't cost 70 munitions. 40-50 seems more than fair.

Snip

The super units that justified the resource penalty have been nerfed a long time ago. The resource penalty holds no justification anymore, it has been like that for quite some time now.

You do make valid points, yet rushing for a kt in a 1v1 is well, impossible since you can't rush it. The balance is mainly for 1v1 and 4v4 will see totally different outcomes. To add to this, kt is now limited to one whilst still being nothing more than a driving hp pool with shit armor and a good gun.

As for the ai part and tommies. Unless you played expert, the ai controlled tommies aren't a good representation of what actuall players can do with them. Ai doesn't build anything according to strategy, it just builds loads of stuff and throws it at you.

How is rifle company now butchered? You can put flamers on rear echelons and support these echelons with rifle bar bazooka blob of doom. Your rifles will still vet up pretty quickly and reach the all important vet 2 soon enough. We finally have echelons with a purpose. Also don't forget they get a 5th man at vet 2, this combined with 5 men rifle squads with bars and bazookas will still rule the field. Most certainly since relic decided to remove all crowd control options for OKW from normal tech structure. Mg34 is still doctrinal.

Usf will be fine, as will soviets. UKF is just overnerfed, which is expected after the initial launch and op sale hype.

The super units that justified the resource penalty have been nerfed a long time ago. The resource penalty holds no justification anymore, it has been like that for quite some time now.

I completely agree. I'm glad to see it gone.

You do make valid points, yet rushing for a kt in a 1v1 is well, impossible since you can't rush it. The balance is mainly for 1v1 and 4v4 will see totally different outcomes. To add to this, kt is now limited to one whilst still being nothing more than a driving hp pool with shit armor and a good gun.

For sure, KT rushing in 1v1 is less viable than in team games. All I'm saying is this: they no longer have to wait for their trucks (although this is somewhat offset by them costing resources now), and their income is faster. Even if OKW buys a Panzer IV, that KT is going to come way, way faster than it used to if they manage to have good map control through the early and midgame. I only think teching costs and timing should be examined further; I certainly am not espousing the return of the resource penalty.

As for the ai part and tommies. Unless you played expert, the ai controlled tommies aren't a good representation of what actuall players can do with them. Ai doesn't build anything according to strategy, it just builds loads of stuff and throws it at you.

To an extent, yeah. But when you see a volks and tommy squad each shooting each other by themselves, and the voklks straight up shred them, I think it kind of confirms that both buffing volks' damage while nerfing almost everything about tommies in the same patch is going to need some adjustment. There's nothing subtle about more/less damage.

How is rifle company now butchered? You can put flamers on rear echelons and support these echelons with rifle bar bazooka blob of doom. Your rifles will still vet up pretty quickly and reach the all important vet 2 soon enough. We finally have echelons with a purpose. Also don't forget they get a 5th man at vet 2, this combined with 5 men rifle squads with bars and bazookas will still rule the field. Most certainly since relic decided to remove all crowd control options for OKW from normal tech structure. Mg34 is still doctrinal.

It's more of a thematic failure than anything. It's called "rifle company," so why it does next to nothing to benefit riflemen is silly. Nobody cares about Fire Up!, and flares are a niche utility and always have been. Flamethrowers on rear echelon troops is okay, but they're still rear echelon troops at the end of the day. Sure, it isn't a shitty ability, but it certainly isn't anything to get excited about when choosing which doctrine you want. The Easy 8 is the only cool ability in this doctrine now. Relic should have just reworked how veteran riflemen work, rather than scrapping the concept.

Too bad the Volks have to wait for the grenades and shreks to be unlocked like the USF do, and then run back to their base and walk tot the other side to pick them up... and.....

Oh wait.....

I was talking about ostheer. Y'know, that faction that doesn't have volks/shrecks or Raks from HQ.

Please, please please recognize the context of what is being said before you post your counter-points

Everyone, the devs have stated that costs will be adjusted.

It'd be far more constructive to post what, exactly, the new costs should be.

After playing more, I've got to say I really, really hate kubels being able to cap, especially when fighting the AI who's programmed to back-cap all your points above all else. There's no defending against kubels harassing your points every thirty seconds. I hope to God Relic removes their ability to cap completely. If not, they should not be as durable or potent as they are.

Oops, meant to post this in that other thread. Whatever.

I played dlc patch v2 and these are my impressions:
a) 100% of resources is actually really a lot of time that OKW is the weakest army of the game.
b) cost of volks 250 is fair, however they should have a defensive bonus in green cover as little live under the same conditions compared to British infantry.
c) RIP Kubewagem
d) 0 of fuel in the game start? this is a joke? 15 fuel is better.
e) bazooka USF = 60 mun, "bazooka" ukf = 60 mun, mun bazooka wer = 60 (60x2) bazooka OKW 90 ??? Oh really???
f) Usf = .50 ok! Ukf = vikers ok! Wer = mg42 ok! = = Maxim Soviets and diska = ok ok
OKW = ??? Kubelwagem ??? machine gun ??? helloo ???
g) Waiting for the new commander $$$

Stormtroopers are just pseudo PGs and not worth going doctrinal unless you want to skip T2 (which you shouldn´t).

Stormtroopers have 3 advantages and 2 disadvantages compared to pzgrens

Advantages:

Better rec. acc. (More durable)
Can ambush
Can deploy anywhere

Disadvantages:

Only 1 shreck
MP44s cost muni


End result is a unit which is different from pz-grens in its execution of its role, though the roles are similar.

Stormtroopers have 3 advantages and 2 disadvantages compared to pzgrens

Advantages:

Better rec. acc. (More durable)
Can ambush
Can deploy anywhere

Disadvantages:

Only 1 shreck
MP44s cost muni


End result is a unit which is different from pz-grens in its execution of its role, though the roles are similar.

actually they can also hold fire and neutralize points more quickly.so its sorta like a stronger version of Jaeger light infantry.

I want the grenades to be an upgrade

actually they can also hold fire and neutralize points more quickly.so its sorta like a stronger version of Jaeger light infantry.

Learnt something new there. Thank you

Volks have two grenades, meanwhile, USF had two bars/zooks/1919s/ UKF same thing.

Both of which suck.

I'd rather have a schreck, at least that kills inf randomly.

Incendiary grenade it just to heat up Allied marshmallows.

Or perhaps volksgrenadiers damage buff and cost increase revert. Because of this volk blob + strumpioneer combo.

e) bazooka USF = 60 mun, "bazooka" ukf = 60 mun, mun bazooka wer = 60 (60x2) bazooka OKW 90 ??? Oh really???

Are you for real putting equation mark between bazooka, PIAT, PTRS and shreck? That is so OpieOP.

f) Usf = .50 ok! Ukf = vikers ok! Wer = mg42 ok! = = Maxim Soviets and diska = ok ok
OKW = ??? Kubelwagem ??? machine gun ??? helloo ???

Same could be said about snipers, heavy tanks(no, pershing isn't one), light tanks and many, many other units some factions have and some don't. You're not supposed to have everything, even as OKW.

Both of which suck.

I'd rather have a schreck, at least that kills inf randomly.

Incendiary grenade it just to heat up Allied marshmallows.

Well meanwhile in coh2, double bars suck? I wonder why almost everyone does that in game. Assuming they didn't go rifle company. Double zooks, I see rear echelon with double zooks a lot. Wonder why they are not as good as possible shrecks? Because then everyone would have 2 of them on every squad. Oh and guess what they are receiving a buff. At the same time volks get the two nades. "Searching for the chill"

If the mg34 is going to stay doctrinal, I wish it wouldn't be so terrible at damaging things. I would be willing to pay 30-40 more mp to have it back at 3-4 damage.

/rant

If the mg34 is going to stay doctrinal, I wish it wouldn't be so terrible at damaging things. I would be willing to pay 30-40 more mp to have it back at 3-4 damage.

/rant

MG34 is OKW version of M-42, except MG34 actually works for the cost quite well.
You don't get it for the damage, you get it for the suppression and that is exactly what it provides.

MG34 is OKW version of M-42, except MG34 actually works for the cost quite well.
You don't get it for the damage, you get it for the suppression and that is exactly what it provides.

Yes but apart from schwere panzer hq, okw has no suppression platform anymore. It needs the mg34, which needs te be non doctrinal.

Mg34 is fine as it is, but it needs te be non doctrinal.

Its one thing for volks to have 2 nades for different situations, but they should share the same cool down.

Yes but apart from schwere panzer hq, okw has no suppression platform anymore. It needs the mg34, which needs te be non doctrinal.

Mg34 is fine as it is, but it needs te be non doctrinal.

With new volks?
OKW needs suppression as much as USF now.
Sure, previously they did, because volks were shit, right not they outperform grens easily at vanila state.

And well, soviets need to live without stock AT infantry, OKW needs to live without stock infantry based suppression platform, you still have AA HT, which you forgot to mention.