Balance Preview Patchnotes

Volks regular grenade removed again

Would much rather have seen the flame nade move to Sturmpios (& keeping the old volks nade!)

It would suit the aggressive spirit of Sturms, as they are meant to be assault troops and will often be near buildings. No representation of the recognizable Stielhandgrenade with any of the frontline troops of the german armies in the game is quite a step in the wrong direction from a design perspective. It's a ww2 rts after all!

Brits have the iconic mills bomb, americans have the pineapple grenade everyone will recognize as sth typical of ww2, soviets, well, they don't have their regular nades, but at least the Molotov will be typically associated with the soviet army... but nobody would intuitively associate 'incendiary grenades' with the german army of ww2! The design of giving the western front german frontline troops incendiary grenades instead of the normal, iconic stick grenades is not understandable at all...


Relic has reverted other changes before! And the normal volks nade should definitley return, even if it means the incendiary grenade has to go OR be moved to Sturmpios (an idea many seem to support!! )

Volks definetly need to pay side costs for their grenades, their panzershreck upgrade, and the special "abilities" of the deployed trucks. This will add more options for OKW early game (go for fast nades for building clearing? shrecks for AT?), as well as make the 100% income OKW more in line with the other factions.

This change will also allow more experimentation with delaying the early trucks and the schwerer indirectly by imposing side costs, like all the other factions have to pay.

In terms of the whole super fast panther issue, I think OKW should have to pay an "unlock" cost to get to their panther availability, and also require this upgrade to be researched to unlock the KT.

Volks definetly need to pay side costs for their grenades, their panzershreck upgrade, and the special "abilities" of the deployed trucks. This will add more options for OKW early game (go for fast nades for building clearing? shrecks for AT?), as well as make the 100% income OKW more in line with the other factions.

This change will also allow more experimentation with delaying the early trucks and the schwerer indirectly by imposing side costs, like all the other factions have to pay.

In terms of the whole super fast panther issue, I think OKW should have to pay an "unlock" cost to get to their panther availability, and also require this upgrade to be researched to unlock the KT.

The whole dynamic in this game is : Allies pay for fuel sinks but have cheaper tanks , germans pay more for tanks. (Usually having better tanks overall, with weaker infantry)

The whole dynamic in this game is : Allies pay for fuel sinks but have cheaper tanks , germans pay more for tanks. (Usually having better tanks overall, with weaker infantry)

Not true, all factions pay for their weapon upgrades and grenades through teching. Ostheer does this directly through paying an inflated tech cost (battle phases), which pays for their side costs as well as their tech. Allies pay through side tech, which while overall more expensive than teching the Ostheer way, allows you to make tactical choices and get by with less than 100% investment in your units.

OKW currently pay about the same for tech as USF, but gets their grenades, weapon upgrades, healing, repair, and static defensive building through this cost. This is the reason why the pre-patch OKW has such a dominating force at all times, without sacrificing any lategame armor tech.

Not to mention they get better top tier units out of their T4 than USF, as well as (arguably) better low tier light vehicles.

In conclusion, if you want OKW to get their weapon unlocks and grenades unlocked through teching like Ostheer, they have to pay the prices that come with those upgrades, in the form of more expensive teching costs. Otherwise, the only way to balance them is to give them seperate side tech to pay for these upgrades with.

Relic has reverted other changes before! And the normal volks nade should definitley return, even if it means the incendiary grenade has to go OR be moved to Sturmpios (an idea many seem to support!! )

would require an overhaul of sturmpioneers because they already have a shitton of buttons on their command card.

Also since the pinning effect has been gone on the packhowie + ISG please get auto facing back.

would require an overhaul of sturmpioneers because they already have a shitton of buttons on their command card.

I would put it in the place of the stun nades - and remove the stun nades!
This is simple to do also, as the vet level that unlocks the stun nades also ofers other bonuses; so they'd just have to...

• remove the stun grenade from Sturmpios
  
• give Sturmpios the incendiary grenade
  
• move the Incendiary grenade button to the old position of the stun grenade
  
• remove the part of the veterany tooltip text about stun grenades. The corresponding vet level still has another effect, so half of the text could be kept.
  
• retun old volks grenade!
  

A couple of people on this thread need to stop dancing around insults and either just just say them, or better yet, move on.

So basicly a shitty version of soviet supply drop.

It get shout down easily and it can be also stolen.

Ah why come on volks ?

Can´t you just replace the russian one with german one ?

Russian one was one button clik that can be countered by AA unit that will counter it forever , while ostheer one can be countered by good unit play and stealing supplys while enemy can protect it with mines and mgs and other stuff (talking mainly from 1vs1)

I think german one was almo more risk vs reward and skill vs reward. I like that type of abilities more.

Please relic can´t you make it as I like ?

I agree!


I don't think it's right that either army should have their supply planes shot down. It seems especially unfair to Soviets since OKW have AA in their bases and on T4 as standard.

I don't see any improvement to gameplay with this "counterplay". Especially since it's not really counterplay as AA units attack automatically, meaning no micro required.


Please make Allied and Axis supply planes unshootdownable

Not true, all factions pay for their weapon upgrades and grenades through teching. Ostheer does this directly through paying an inflated tech cost (battle phases), which pays for their side costs as well as their tech. Allies pay through side tech, which while overall more expensive than teching the Ostheer way, allows you to make tactical choices and get by with less than 100% investment in your units.

No, not really. Ostheer pays for their teching. The reason BP is separate from the structure is so you could theoretically skip structures for fast tech builds etc. It gives a linear tech tree versatility while retaining reasonable pacing.


Anyway whatever I don't care anymore. You guys fuck the game up however you like.

Not true, all factions pay for their weapon upgrades and grenades through teching. Ostheer does this directly through paying an inflated tech cost (battle phases), which pays for their side costs as well as their tech. Allies pay through side tech, which while overall more expensive than teching the Ostheer way, allows you to make tactical choices and get by with less than 100% investment in your units.

OKW currently pay about the same for tech as USF, but gets their grenades, weapon upgrades, healing, repair, and static defensive building through this cost. This is the reason why the pre-patch OKW has such a dominating force at all times, without sacrificing any lategame armor tech.

Not to mention they get better top tier units out of their T4 than USF, as well as (arguably) better low tier light vehicles.

In conclusion, if you want OKW to get their weapon unlocks and grenades unlocked through teching like Ostheer, they have to pay the prices that come with those upgrades, in the form of more expensive teching costs. Otherwise, the only way to balance them is to give them seperate side tech to pay for these upgrades with.

+1

would require an overhaul of sturmpioneers because they already have a shitton of buttons on their command card.

Why so? They have space for three more buttons on their own, which should give space for one more button as two spaces need to be open for when SPs are grouped with a tank's attack ground and reverse.

Also since the pinning effect has been gone on the packhowie + ISG please get auto facing back.

the rof should be increased first. because right now the two light howitzer do too little damage to be truly worth it.

also, since the tommies got their size and damage back, their out-of-cover should be reverted

Why so? They have space for three more buttons on their own, which should give space for one more button as two spaces need to be open for when SPs are grouped with a tank's attack ground and reverse.

its just incredibly messy. you dont want to put it in the top row because it breaks the pattern of reserving the top row for basic commands. this would mean putting the fire nade in the middle row, and its just a clusterfuck cause no other unit has this many abilities. its never really a good design idea either to dump all this stuff onto one unit, so thats why im saying they would need an overhaul related to their medkits/stun grenades.

the rof should be increased first. because right now the two light howitzer do too little damage to be truly worth it.

Please note that the Pack Howie and Leig still haven't had their scatter changed since the British arrived where they got ninja buffed which makes them very accurate, even at range compared to what they were pre-British.

Please note that the Pack Howie and Leig still haven't had their scatter changed since the British arrived where they got ninja buffed which makes them very accurate, even at range compared to what they were pre-British.

and they've gotten another nerf related to their firing arc and rof since then.

Both light howitzers have become dependent on their suppression to be effective. While I'm happy to see it go, their base rof and/or aoe need a buff to compenstate.

its just incredibly messy. you dont want to put it in the top row because it breaks the pattern of reserving the top row for basic commands. this would mean putting the fire nade in the middle row, and its just a clusterfuck cause no other unit has this many abilities. its never really a good design idea either to dump all this stuff onto one unit, so thats why im saying they would need an overhaul related to their medkits/stun grenades.

Ah, you are right, I forgot the minesweeper. Yeah, can't work, something would need to go.

...though I'd hardly have an issue with gutting concussion for a vet 0 incendiary grenade and moving vet bonuses around to compensate.

(Also point of information, I'm pretty sure Conscripts with Conscript Support Tactics are as bad. Swap salvage, concussion, put away sweeper, cut wire and medkits for merge, molotov, RPG-43, flare mine and hit the dirt)

Would much rather have seen the flame nade move to Sturmpios (& keeping the old volks nade!)

It would suit the aggressive spirit of Sturms, as they are meant to be assault troops and will often be near buildings. No representation of the recognizable Stielhandgrenade with any of the frontline troops of the german armies in the game is quite a step in the wrong direction from a design perspective. It's a ww2 rts after all!

Brits have the iconic mills bomb, americans have the pineapple grenade everyone will recognize as sth typical of ww2, soviets, well, they don't have their regular nades, but at least the Molotov will be typically associated with the soviet army... but nobody would intuitively associate 'incendiary grenades' with the german army of ww2! The design of giving the western front german frontline troops incendiary grenades instead of the normal, iconic stick grenades is not understandable at all...


Relic has reverted other changes before! And the normal volks nade should definitley return, even if it means the incendiary grenade has to go OR be moved to Sturmpios (an idea many seem to support!! )

Sturmpios are by far already the best repair unit in the game, thier utility doesn't require the grenade to be moved to them. Even peasant partisans can throw grenades yet the Soviet combat engineers with less durability,DPS, repair speed and no option to put away sweeper do not have a grenade. Hell rear ech don't have a grenade, pioneers don't have a grenade. OKW special snow flake.

Volks definetly need to pay side costs for their grenades, their panzershreck upgrade, and the special "abilities" of the deployed trucks. This will add more options for OKW early game (go for fast nades for building clearing? shrecks for AT?), as well as make the 100% income OKW more in line with the other factions.

This change will also allow more experimentation with delaying the early trucks and the schwerer indirectly by imposing side costs, like all the other factions have to pay.

In terms of the whole super fast panther issue, I think OKW should have to pay an "unlock" cost to get to their panther availability, and also require this upgrade to be researched to unlock the KT.

What if they got regular nades from one building and flame nades from another? Like putting the building down unlocks it.

Actually I'd prefer if Sturms got flame nades, but they were unlocked by one truck, and Volks got regular nades, but they were unlocked by another truck. Not mutually exclusive or anything, just a gate on those abilities.

Well look at that, within hours of the supply run change Axis players see the light that is getting your supply run countered. (Although the allied players will have to DELIBERATLEY counter it by constructing AI not just having base defences or a Schwere)

Great change, both planes should be destructible, but now there will be more discussion on thier directions. Non destructible planes LAWL people wouldn't pick that every time *cough* *cough*.

Smine fields made the crates extremely easy to defend, risk reward lol. More like run in to a pre-prepared position on seconds notice to try and take the crates. The axis drop has been in a much more favourable position since OKW launch.