Balance Preview Patchnotes

It's a shame that unique ideas were removed in the commanders. They could have been balanced for sure, replacing them was just quicker and easier

Its admirable that relic are trying to fix okw, it would be easy to just wipe their hands and just walk away..

However this this patch has clusterfuck written all over it..

Firstly they refuse to address the issue of having schrecks on cheap mainline infantry, that have five men and 5 levels of vet. Schreck blobs and okw blobs in general will always be present if you can combine AT and AI in the same blob and just A-move around the map.

Secondly, reducing SP to 300 is simply going to promote double SP openings straight to opponents cutoff while kubel just cruises around in the background capping away uncontested. 2 SP will always hit field before 3 rifles and 2 SP easily account for 2 rifles unless they charge over open ground.

The new meta will be something like 2 SP, kubel, volk, volk, luchs, with some variation. Allies will now almost always have to rush a stuart or T70.

The kubel is also going to be a pain in the arse now that it can cap. OKW early game has already been buffed, they don't need a vehicle that can basically decap opponent sector uncontested for the first 8 mins.

I don't believe okw are as bad as most say it is. Yes weaker but not useless.

I have not played the preview so I may be wrong and I am happy for people to point out where I have it wrong but changing okw (buffing) whilst nerfing allies seems to me to be recipe for diaster since history shows they always buff/nerf too hard.

Tommies were just fine with their in-cover shtick, after some initial shock and l2p issues people learned to live with that. I have no idea why Relic saw fit to change them, or why they thought removing some of their in-cover damage compensated for buffing their out-of-cover damage. You remove their one strong feature, cover play, while they are still largely useless out of cover? You nerf them in their 80%-of-the-time used mode, but buff slightly their 20%-got-caught-out-of-position mode (and they STILL can't go 1v1 versus any enemy infantry, let alone cost for cost)? So now they will take 50% of Grenadier squad health instead of 40% in an ideal out of cover shootout before being forced to retreat? What does it fix, exactly?

You're wrong about the buff/nerf values. They nerfed DPS in cover by 15% in cover (5 to 6 shots to kill) and by something like 12% out of cover because the penalty almost doesn't affect their DPS. In addition to the survivability nerf and vet nerf this makes them barely cost-effective in cover and almost useless out of cover (barely win vs stock grens).

The Kv2 is tougher and has a lower pop but perhaps its massive turret deserves some love? Its armor isn't the best and it has pretty much no mobility....

You're wrong about the buff/nerf values. They nerfed DPS in cover by 15% in cover (5 to 6 shots to kill) and by something like 12% out of cover because the penalty almost doesn't affect their DPS. In addition to the survivability nerf and vet nerf this makes them barely cost-effective in cover and almost useless out of cover (barely win vs stock grens).

Wow, all this time I assumed they buffed their out of cover performance while reducing their in cover performance. Ouch. The real messed up thing is that in the alpha the IS cost more, but they ended up having to reduce their cost (leaving stats intact) which should have been a proper indicator that they are not overperforming for cost. I suppose someone forgot that.

The Kv2 is tougher and has a lower pop but perhaps its massive turret deserves some love? Its armor isn't the best and it has pretty much no mobility....

Because it does not have a defined role. It is supposed to be a siege weapon, something like a heavy arty piece (a combination of B4 and the Priest). There is another thread for it though.

If volks have antiinfantry upgrade, ober is meaningless.

What the point of them then? At least Conscripts have AT nades and commander's PPSH. On the other hand volks have better scaling and vet system (but again vet 3 cons are really nice).

If sturmpios would have schrecks then I see no reason to have more then 1 or 2 volks for early game and then spam sturmpios, or use stums+kubel combo right of the bat.

If sturmpios would have schrecks then I see no reason to have more then 1 or 2 volks for early game and then spam sturmpios, or use stums+kubel combo right of the bat.

Sturms with schrecks ... this would be a dissaster. Fragile unit with 9 popcap, your minesweeper, your repair source, they are already busy enough. Giving them shrecks would also decrease their performance as combat unit.

If u want to give them shrecks make it 2 per squad, and decrease popcap (2 sturms = 18popcap really?). But I would approach other way. Leave volks as they where - meatshield squad - buff storms so they can perform as combat unit. Make Obers available earlier - expensive glorified grens at battlegroup hq without upgrades, LMG, STG unlocked with schwerer. With current changes I expect more fuel investment in flak hq, luchs and puma. Schwerer will be delayed even more and with it obers, we will end up with volks blobs and call in infantry making obers extinct.

what about a "multi-purpose combat package"?

2x shrek + 3*mp40 for 100muni

would make them similar to pgrens

Sturms with schrecks ... this would be a dissaster. Fragile unit with 9 popcap, your minesweeper, your repair source, they are already busy enough. Giving them shrecks would also decrease their performance as combat unit.

If u want to give them shrecks make it 2 per squad, and decrease popcap (2 sturms = 18popcap really?). But I would approach other way. Leave volks as they where - meatshield squad - buff storms so they can perform as combat unit. Make Obers available earlier - expensive glorified grens at battlegroup hq without upgrades, LMG, STG unlocked with schwerer. With current changes I expect more fuel investment in flak hq, luchs and puma. Schwerer will be delayed even more and with it obers, we will end up with volks blobs and call in infantry making obers extinct.

I would agree that it would be terriable at some point, but also would be broken to be honest.

Units with AT guns (Zooks\Schreck) always will eat up vets like crazy. So this means that Sturms will be insta vet 5 after few schreck shots. And I must say, their vet is really nice. Their vet stats werent changed in patch notes. Vet 5 sturms are:

1)Unlocks medical supplies ability
2)-30% weapon cooldown -23% received accuracy
3)+25% repair rate unlocks stun grenade ability
4)-23% received accuracy +20% accuracy
5)+40% accuracy Lowers extra damage while repairing

I had sturmpios with vet 5 ones, and they could stay toe-to-toe with Shocktroops. The point is that, right know volks at least cant do shit to inf, while schrecks pios blobs (lets say 2-3 of them) with vet 5 would be able to deal insane damage up close (even with only 3 StGs) but most importantly, repair all damaged tanks without any penalties during the fight with higher speed. Thats the problem.

Not to mention that they would be able to stun any support weapons with nades.

So yeah, stumpio schreck is the worst idea.

just watched the hans vs jesulin match
all i gotta say is relic plz buff falls

just watched the hans vs jesulin match
all i gotta say is relic plz buff falls

I don't think they need buff. What annoys me is how they clump up. Look at them closely how they move and stand in cover, most of the time models phase thru each other. Can't count how many times I lost my high vet falls to single t34/sherman/pershing shot, mine, mortar. Just spread them and it will be good.

just watched the hans vs jesulin match
all i gotta say is relic plz buff falls

They, just like obersts, have to be at least vet 2-3, to be useful. Vet 0 falls, are simply overpriced so-so inf.

I would rather, give them passive clock at vet 0, or degrease price or degrease exp requirements.

what about the commandos nade? RE fire rate?

I don't think they need buff. What annoys me is how they clump up. Look at them closely how they move and stand in cover, most of the time models phase thru each other. Can't count how many times I lost my high vet falls to single t34/sherman/pershing shot, mine, mortar. Just spread them and it will be good.

they are elite soliders, they went through years of special training which made them like eachother,very much. they just like hugging and all that stuff.."special" forces

just watched the hans vs jesulin match
all i gotta say is relic plz buff falls

Jesulin rekt hans again, when can we expect your post to buff rangers and rifles?

Jesulin rekt hans again, when can we expect your post to buff rangers and rifles?

He is mad that clumped up falls get one shotted by a 90 mm main gun from a heavy tank. I wouldn't even quote him in the future if I were you.

meh the okw blobs of doom are incoming, time to play support CAS for ultimate cheese

just watched the hans vs jesulin match
all i gotta say is relic plz buff falls

Falls are one of the few units that are completely fine. He lost them to AOE, which means bad RNG. But then again don't dance around of a Pershing, it has the same AOE as the KT.