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COH Steam gonna get fixed?

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Rogers
3 Jul 2013, 05:01 AM
#21
avatar of Rogers

Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2013, 03:36 AMnin3
When I purchased vcoh or the expansion they didn't say I only can use it for 6 years, did they?
I know someone at the UCLA School of Law, I will just ask him.


The original servers hosted by Quarzel or whatever the fuck it was called was sniped/bought by Ubisoft. Relic did not know that was going to happen. They were also loosing their Publisher at the time so things were fairly... hectic? So what did Relic do, they were faced with TWO OPTIONS. Loose COH multiplayer entirely. ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR switch to steam servers via a deal to host their content. They chose to continue support through steam instead of just having multiplayer go away. Yes its rough right now, and shitty. THEY KNOW, it will be worked on when they have their own servers/ladder/leaderboards set up. If you think you are entitled to INFINITE post launch support you obviously do not read that EULA... Use Licence Agreement You know that little legal block of text that EVERYONE just clicks agree to before you install the game?

They owe you NOTHING legally after you buy they game. NOTHING. All THEY OWE YOU is what is on the CD/DVD or Steam version. No post launch support is promised or assured. If this seems unfair to you, you may want to start hitting decline and return you're games because its the same agreement with every EULA just about.

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goatsecks
3 Jul 2013, 11:21 AM
#22
avatar of goatsecks

Posts: 13

Well, if Relic / Sega adopt your shitty and patronising attitude then they will definitely haemorrhage customers.

Customer service and support means a lot, to a lot of customers. I am not going to trade with a company that historically has provided me with bad service. Even if this means not buying CoH 2. :(

Fingers crossed they tie up the lose ends with the old title. :)

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Mortality
3 Jul 2013, 15:41 PM
#23
avatar of Mortality

Posts: 255

fuck COH2, fix COH1
steam | twitch
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Arashenstein
3 Jul 2013, 15:55 PM
#24
avatar of Arashenstein

Posts: 250

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2013, 15:41 PMMortality
fuck COH2, fix COH1

now if i had said this 1000 people would come here moan about it lol but +1
Who dares wins!
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nin3
3 Jul 2013, 15:55 PM
#25
avatar of nin3

Posts: 59

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2013, 05:01 AMRogers


The original servers hosted by Quarzel or whatever the fuck it was called was sniped/bought by Ubisoft. Relic did not know that was going to happen. They were also loosing their Publisher at the time so things were fairly... hectic? So what did Relic do, they were faced with TWO OPTIONS. Loose COH multiplayer entirely. ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR switch to steam servers via a deal to host their content. They chose to continue support through steam instead of just having multiplayer go away. Yes its rough right now, and shitty. THEY KNOW, it will be worked on when they have their own servers/ladder/leaderboards set up. If you think you are entitled to INFINITE post launch support you obviously do not read that EULA... Use Licence Agreement You know that little legal block of text that EVERYONE just clicks agree to before you install the game?

They owe you NOTHING legally after you buy they game. NOTHING. All THEY OWE YOU is what is on the CD/DVD or Steam version. No post launch support is promised or assured. If this seems unfair to you, you may want to start hitting decline and return you're games because its the same agreement with every EULA just about.



I've just read the 4. End User License Agreement. You should read it too.
It grants me a rights to use the program and this program came with a multi-player features (its printed in the box, no need to rear the EULA) which is not working, clearly. And there are many young lawyers out there looking for a class action case.
I hope I can get their interest.
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TychoCelchuuu
3 Jul 2013, 16:02 PM
#26
avatar of TychoCelchuuu
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2

Uh, no, section 4 of the EULA gives you a right to use the program, not a right to have the program work the way it worked when you bought it. Otherwise you could say the EULA prevents Relic from patching it because you have a right to play the game you bought, not the game once it's patched.

Signature by Ginnungagap
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CombatMuffin
3 Jul 2013, 16:26 PM
#27
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

The EULA does not grant you any rights TO the game. It grants you rights to play the game AS IS. As long as the game is reasonably playable (a start to finish experience is one of requirements, and campaign fulfills that). They never promised you ladders, or observer mode, or replay tools, or worldbuilders. They said MAYBE, and in commerce that means NOT NOW.

The best thing you are going to get off a lengthy, drawn out court case is your money back and a lot of legal fees. This varies depending on where you live (Europe takes EULA's much more seriously than anywhere else).

Also, as a young lawyer myself: Sega probably has access to an EXTREMELY good legal department, seeing as they are in the gambling business and all. Even in the remote scenario that the young lawyer you hire actually wins the case after a year or so of climactic paperwork. They are going to get your money (20-30% of it sounds about right).

Its the buyer's risk, my friend: Sometimes, we purchase a product that was not up to our expectations. Sometimes you get your money back, sometimes you can't.

It would also be shitty if, by the time your court case is approaching the phase to present evidence, Relic has patched the game (1 year to do it), and you have ladders, observer mode, replay tools, or whatever. Then your case has no grounds and well, you might still have to pay up.
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wehrman
3 Jul 2013, 16:48 PM
#28
avatar of wehrman

Posts: 80

LOL at some of these posts. They represent the extremes of typical message boards.

It's ridiculous to think Relic or Sega is going to support a game forever. At the other end of the spectrum, simply from a PR pov, this was in bad taste.

You have a new game about to launch which is a sequel to the best rated RTS ever with a long lasting loyal player base. It was a big snafu in how this was handled. But yes, end of day, at least we still have a game to play, so I'll give them credit there.

What stinks about the whole thing is that COH is the best rated RTS ever so it should be treated better. There's also a sequel title which has just come out. So why would you bury the original. Kind of like destroying all the Star Wars content as soon as Empire Strikes Back comes out.

One is going to feed off the other. Clearly COH2 is going to be the cash cow, but as some new players who jump straight to COH2 might get bored or even just intrigued by the original (kind of like people who saw Empire first and then went back and watched Star Wars), you want to have COH up and ready. Fix the bugs, automatching and maybe one last balance patch for things like stags and sniper spam, etc. and you got a game that continues to be well more worth its weight in gold.

People that are still playing after several years do so for a reason. But the thing is it attracts new players as well. I've played against plenty of 16 year olds that surely didn't start playing when they were 10. I'd say this (although I'm hesitant) that Relic could probably charge a few bucks a month as a service fee on the original, so long as they offered support with it.
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nin3
3 Jul 2013, 17:37 PM
#29
avatar of nin3

Posts: 59

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2013, 16:26 PMCombatMuffin
The EULA does not grant you any rights TO the game. It grants you rights to play the game AS IS. As long as the game is reasonably playable (a start to finish experience is one of requirements, and campaign fulfills that). They never promised you ladders, or observer mode, or replay tools, or worldbuilders. They said MAYBE, and in commerce that means NOT NOW.

The best thing you are going to get off a lengthy, drawn out court case is your money back and a lot of legal fees. This varies depending on where you live (Europe takes EULA's much more seriously than anywhere else).

Also, as a young lawyer myself: Sega probably has access to an EXTREMELY good legal department, seeing as they are in the gambling business and all. Even in the remote scenario that the young lawyer you hire actually wins the case after a year or so of climactic paperwork. They are going to get your money (20-30% of it sounds about right).

Its the buyer's risk, my friend: Sometimes, we purchase a product that was not up to our expectations. Sometimes you get your money back, sometimes you can't.

It would also be shitty if, by the time your court case is approaching the phase to present evidence, Relic has patched the game (1 year to do it), and you have ladders, observer mode, replay tools, or whatever. Then your case has no grounds and well, you might still have to pay up.


Why would i waste my time and money with something like this?
Where did you rear i want to hire a lawyer?
I said, maybe i ask someone.
But it doesn't change the fact how they are taking care of their customers. And with these day economy its a very bad strategy, but we shall see the sale numbers.

Im done with it, just like with spending money on relic.
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Charger71
3 Jul 2013, 18:16 PM
#30
avatar of Charger71

Posts: 29

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2013, 15:41 PMMortality
fuck COH2, fix COH1


+++++1 can only say that I agree with this
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CombatMuffin
3 Jul 2013, 19:21 PM
#31
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

Why would i waste my time and money with something like this?
Where did you rear i want to hire a lawyer?
I said, maybe i ask someone.


Well....

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2013, 15:55 PMnin3
...And there are many young lawyers out there looking for a class action case.
I hope I can get their interest.


Usually you get a lawyers attention, to HIRE them (consulting them costs, too).

Relic isn't mistreating their customers. Sega isn't mistreating their customers. They aren't doing anything "wrong". Some companies go way out there to deliver extra content for their customers, for free, most them don't.

A lot of people are just lashing back because the product did not meet their expectations. They got hyped. Like I've said: ladders have become an industry standard, but its an expectation, not a requirement. Lobbies and replay tools, too.

The review scores of CoH2 reflect both the improvements and the downfalls pretty clearly: its getting 8's in most places. It still is a quality product: its got good presentation, good graphics, excellent sound quality, decent gameplay (There have been WAY worse RTS games in history).

vCoH got 9's, because it delivered the same amount of presentation, excellent sound quality, excellent graphics and the gameplay was never before seen. This time around though, the gameplay has been seen and played for 7 years. vCoH did NOT earn a 9 because of amazing ladder systems, amazing replay features and state of the art networking and matchmaking.

So I ask you guys: If CoH2 suddenly gets observer mode, random faction choice, ladders and a lobby, will the game suddenly become insanely OMG GREAT JUST NEEDS BALANCE TWEAKS?
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Ronald Dumsfeld
3 Jul 2013, 21:42 PM
#32
avatar of Ronald Dumsfeld

Posts: 80

fuck COH2, fix COH1
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TarpMada
4 Jul 2013, 00:27 AM
#33
avatar of TarpMada

Posts: 44

Some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous, be appreciative, you know how few major publishers would have saved this game from going offline? THQ wasn't going to, they couldn't even save themselves. SEGA came in and put the funds necessary into coh to keep the online working and they did it because they care about their strategy franchises. They also delayed COH2, which is already missing features in its current state so who knows what awful "release" version we were going to see under THQ.


So your automatch in CoH doesn't work?

Boo-fucking-hoo, use the match browser. It works fine and frankly it's always been a better way to find games anyways. Relic will fix the rest of the already functional multiplayer when they get the chance.
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Rogers
4 Jul 2013, 01:24 AM
#34
avatar of Rogers

Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jul 2013, 15:55 PMnin3


I've just read the 4. End User License Agreement. You should read it too.
It grants me a rights to use the program and this program came with a multi-player features (its printed in the box, no need to rear the EULA) which is not working, clearly. And there are many young lawyers out there looking for a class action case.
I hope I can get their interest.


Please try, the waste of time would be most entertaining.
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Stonethecrow01
4 Jul 2013, 03:09 AM
#35
avatar of Stonethecrow01

Posts: 379

It's becoming increasingly difficult to read threads with issues and have an intelligent discussion about them on COH2.org without seeing unbelievably dumb arguments and statements (like threats of suing relic? seriously?).

A huge amount of negativity and entitlement on this site.

Personally I can't think of a single product ever that I've got better dollar to hours of entertainment value from than CoH.

If relic said they are going to upgrade CoH on steam? Great. If you want more information about it why don't you email them or post on their site?
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gunther09
4 Jul 2013, 05:40 AM
#36
avatar of gunther09
Donator 22

Posts: 538

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2013, 03:09 AMStonethecrow01


Personally I can't think of a single product ever that I've got better dollar to hours of entertainment value from than CoH.


jep jep!
we once had this discussion about perfect dollar/return ratio and came to things like "my bed", "toilet paper" "my girlfriend"......things like that. But really difficult to beat CoH!!!!
Greetings from Nürnberg - always happy to increase our local COH pool for local events - more glory: Rankade ladder
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goatsecks
4 Jul 2013, 08:06 AM
#37
avatar of goatsecks

Posts: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2013, 03:09 AMStonethecrow01
It's becoming increasingly difficult to read threads with issues and have an intelligent discussion about them on COH2.org without seeing unbelievably dumb arguments and statements (like threats of suing relic? seriously?).

A huge amount of negativity and entitlement on this site.

Personally I can't think of a single product ever that I've got better dollar to hours of entertainment value from than CoH.

If relic said they are going to upgrade CoH on steam? Great. If you want more information about it why don't you email them or post on their site?


Yea, people bringing up the EULA and threats of legal action are over the top. I also am dismayed at individuals who are willing to defend publishers who show very little interest in the fans (other than getting them to buy the most recent game/dlc/expansion).

For me it is simple; if relic don't finish work on the first game, don't buy the second one.

Down fan?

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TarpMada
4 Jul 2013, 08:32 AM
#38
avatar of TarpMada

Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2013, 08:06 AMgoatsecks


Yea, people bringing up the EULA and threats of legal action are over the top. I also am dismayed at individuals who are willing to defend publishers who show very little interest in the fans (other than getting them to buy the most recent game/dlc/expansion).

For me it is simple; if relic don't finish work on the first game, don't buy the second one.

Down fan?



Saving the game from going offline by paying an external studio to port it to Steamworks and fix major bugs/issues with said version is showing "very little interest"? That's preposterous, sorry.

I want some of these issues fixed too but the game still works fine if you use the match browser. I'm surprised so many care about automatch, the match browser has always been the superior way to find yourself games. I'm more angry that CoH2 lacks a match browser vs. CoH losing automatch.
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Rogers
4 Jul 2013, 14:42 PM
#39
avatar of Rogers

Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2013, 08:06 AMgoatsecks


Yea, people bringing up the EULA and threats of legal action are over the top. I also am dismayed at individuals who are willing to defend publishers who show very little interest in the fans (other than getting them to buy the most recent game/dlc/expansion).

For me it is simple; if relic don't finish work on the first game, don't buy the second one.

Down fan?



How is Relic supporting the game for free for 6 years and still supporting it no caring about their fans? How is Relic striking a deal with steam to host multiplayer on their servers instead of shutting it down not caring about their fans? Just because an older game is taking them longer to get in working order does not mean they do not care. If anything it means the opposite.
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goatsecks
4 Jul 2013, 17:18 PM
#40
avatar of goatsecks

Posts: 13

Let me try an explain why I think the game has been neglected (particularly in the last few years)

1) Keeping the servers up: well, that is the minimum they had to do so people who bought the game on steam could still actually play - since offline mode required a CD.

2) Anti-cheat measures: I have never been convinced rigorous anti-cheat have ever been implemented. I am aware that replays (at some point, certainly not for all of CoH's life) could be submitted to relic for consideration, and that gamereplays occasionally named and shamed some cheaters.

3) Bug and balance issues: 2.601 has provided us with the most balanced and (in game) bug free version of the game. The community had to wait almost 2 years for this patch (sat in 2.301). During which time a large part of the community left, with a disproportionate amount of the top players going. 2.301 and prior the balance really was awful. With it only coming close to balance just before opposing fronts got released.

Regular updates for CoH stopped with the release of ToV. Other than in game, the leader boards have not worked correctly for 2-3 years (I cant remember when the search button last worked?), ever present NAT errors, servers going down (and coming back up with default map lists).

I think hand on heart, we can only claim CoH had approximately 3 years of bug and balance support.

4) No feed back from the developers and publishers. I accept that balance/bug patches cost time and money. But an occasional 'hi' in the news feed costs nothing. This I think was of particularly bad form. Little bits of feedback from official sources are really appreciated.

I know they are not obliged to do any of this stuff. But this is what really builds thriving communities, which I think CoH / CoH 2 is falling short on at the moment.

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