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Riflemen Vet breaks balance (with comparisons)

16 Nov 2015, 04:41 AM
#21
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

So Rifleman -43% + Grenadier +40% creates a net of -3%

Vs. Grenadier -23% + Rifleman 30% creates a net of +7% (although I believe Grenadier has a native -7% at Vet 0 if I'm not mistaken) so... Even.

Does seem that bad... or am I missing something here?

Now I'll admit that Rifleman Vet3 places Vet 0/1 Grens at a pretty bad disadvantage but squad preservation should be rewarded and Vet 0/1 squads will struggle versus any Vet 3 squad.
16 Nov 2015, 04:46 AM
#22
avatar of DebtCo

Posts: 46

Meanwhile Ass. Gren cries in the corner

Seriously, I havent met anyone palying with ass gren lately. even if the do pick the commander, they never used the ass gren. only the stug E as a fast light veh. counter
16 Nov 2015, 04:52 AM
#23
avatar of MrSotkoGaming
Donator 11

Posts: 452 | Subs: 1

yeah riflemen are a bit OP lol. but honestly with elite infantry for OST if grenadiers were any better in terms of their vet, it would be so insanely OP to elite them. perhaps its just elite infantry that makes it broken. still not much of an excuse to make gren vet so weak.
16 Nov 2015, 05:27 AM
#24
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

people here do know that recieved accuracy applies to per model....so the bonus is amplified on large squad size aka making them more op.....i.e grenadiers benefit less from recieved accruacy then rifles or cons..??......also i would like to all other infy vet good in late game rather than nerfing cons,rifle and tommies....and maybe make anti infy elite units or light vehicles better to deal with late game vetted infy
16 Nov 2015, 05:33 AM
#25
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

also base falls and obers suck terribly for their cost and role both
16 Nov 2015, 05:33 AM
#26
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

I feel like you aren't taking upgrades into account. LMG's and Panzershreks are markedly stronger than any allied upgrades. J. Lee has mentioned doing work on veterancy more than once on stream so "soon." :snfPeter:
16 Nov 2015, 05:41 AM
#27
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

I feel like you aren't taking upgrades into account. LMG's and Panzershreks are markedly stronger than any allied upgrades. J. Lee has mentioned doing work on veterancy more than once on stream so "soon." :snfPeter:


or maybe u did not know all lmgs on infy are all almost same,bars cost less,thompson and ppsh are great now after buff,panzershreck is costly,bazooka is versatile and can be picked by any infy and is cheaper than shrecks...why dont you take that into account or what about free vehicle crew repairs..without any handicap to the faction..??
16 Nov 2015, 05:45 AM
#28
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664



or maybe u did not know all lmgs on infy are all almost same,bars cost less,thompson and ppsh are great now after buff,panzershreck is costly,bazooka is versatile and can be picked by any infy and is cheaper than shrecks...why dont you take that into account or what about free vehicle crew repairs..without any handicap to the faction..??


I am taking those factors into account and I didn't agree or disagree with your thesis. Saying PPSH are "great" seems to be an overstatement though.
16 Nov 2015, 05:54 AM
#29
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721



I am taking those factors into account and I didn't agree or disagree with your thesis. Saying PPSH are "great" seems to be an overstatement though.

try them at vet 3 cons they are great due to combined health of cons at vet 3 they got buffed recently and the ppsh also got buffed
16 Nov 2015, 05:57 AM
#30
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

So Rifleman -43% + Grenadier +40% creates a net of -3%

Vs. Grenadier -23% + Rifleman 30% creates a net of +7% (although I believe Grenadier has a native -7% at Vet 0 if I'm not mistaken) so... Even.

Does seem that bad... or am I missing something here?


that's not how math works

it's 1.40 x .77 x .80 = 0.8624

and

1.30 x .77 = 1.001


even with the old rifleman vet, it's still

1.4 x .77 = 1.078



or maybe u did not know all lmgs on infy are all almost same,bars cost less,thompson and ppsh are great now after buff,panzershreck is costly,bazooka is versatile and can be picked by any infy and is cheaper than shrecks...why dont you take that into account or what about free vehicle crew repairs..without any handicap to the faction..??


bar cost the same as lmg42, 60 munition.

All the rifleman needed was a decrease in cost for the BAR, not a veterancy buff into terminators.


and probably a slight nerf to the grenadier's veterancy, specially the accuracy bonus to 30%

16 Nov 2015, 06:07 AM
#31
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721



that's not how math works

it's 1.40 x .77 x .80 = 0.8624

and

1.30 x .77 = 1.001


even with the old rifleman vet, it's still

1.4 x .77 = 1.078



bar cost the same as lmg42, 60 munition.

All the rifleman needed was a decrease in cost for the BAR, not a veterancy buff into terminators.


and probably a slight nerf to the grenadier's veterancy, specially the accuracy bonus to 30%



ah ok..just checked the you are right i thouhg lmg was 75 muni..wel whatever...THe bar i checked got their on move accuracy buffed so they are much better on move...and yes i said then the relic released the patch notes the same thing but no one listened,i dont know what u mean by acuracy nerf to grens i mean its ok nothing wrong here....and what u say bout tommies..??
16 Nov 2015, 06:09 AM
#32
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

Also can anyone plz make a thread about vet requirements i swear to god ukf units vet so quickly
16 Nov 2015, 06:29 AM
#33
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


i dont know what u mean by acuracy nerf to grens i mean its ok nothing wrong here....and what u say bout tommies..??


the old received accuracy bonus on the rifleman and current grenadier is .77

the weapon accuracy bonus on the grenadier is 1.40

1.4 x .77 = 1.078, or 107.8%. This mean that at vet3, the grenadier gain a net 7.8 % increase in accuracy against rifleman.

by comparison, the weapon accuracy bonus on the rifleman is 1.30

1.3 x .77 = 1.001, or 100.1%. The rifleman gain a net .1% increase in accuracy against grenadier, an insignificant amount.

this mean the grenadier had a 7.7% advantage in accuracy when both units are vet3. The accuracy bonus on the grenadier should be lowered to 1.3 since that would cause the received accuracy and weapon accuracy bonus to cancel each other out.

and here's an earlier thread I made on the british, although the value should be revised a bit if the grenadier get a nerf to accuracy bonus.

http://www.coh2.org/post/create/thread_id/43984/quote/430149
16 Nov 2015, 06:36 AM
#34
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721



the old received accuracy bonus on the rifleman and current grenadier is .77

the weapon accuracy bonus on the grenadier is 1.40

1.4 x .77 = 1.078, or 107.8%. This mean that at vet3, the grenadier gain a net 7.8 % increase in accuracy against rifleman.

by comparison, the weapon accuracy bonus on the rifleman is 1.30

1.3 x .77 = 1.001, or 100.1%. The rifleman gain a net .1% increase in accuracy against grenadier, an insignificant amount.

this mean the grenadier had a 7.7% advantage in accuracy when both units are vet3. The accuracy bonus on the grenadier should be lowered to 1.3 since that would cause the received accuracy and weapon accuracy bonus to cancel each other out.

and here's an earlier thread I made on the british, although the value should be revised a bit if the grenadier get a nerf to accuracy bonus.

http://www.coh2.org/post/create/thread_id/43984/quote/430149

so does weapon accuracy is per model or whole squad..i mean if it is per model then it should be fine on gren as they have lower model count than rifles otherwise if it is whole squad then yeah you are definitely right..otherwise point well made
16 Nov 2015, 06:56 AM
#35
avatar of Diogenes5

Posts: 269

It's not just rifle vets that are op, it's the fact that they get flamers which can crit everything.

There's a reason the commander was banned for OCF, yet Relic saw this and did nothing to balance them ...
16 Nov 2015, 07:06 AM
#36
avatar of AnimalMother

Posts: 39

please reduce axis front armor if nerf rifleman.most all my shots bounce from their tanks into late game while mine tanks cut threw like cheese
16 Nov 2015, 07:16 AM
#37
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


so does weapon accuracy is per model or whole squad..i mean if it is per model then it should be fine on gren as they have lower model count than rifles otherwise if it is whole squad then yeah you are definitely right..otherwise point well made


does it matter if it's per model or per squad? I doubt there's a distinction.

in the end the wehr is paying 60 mp per man and the US is paying 56 mp per man.
16 Nov 2015, 07:21 AM
#38
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721



does it matter if it's per model or per squad? I doubt there's a distinction.

in the end the wehr is paying 60 mp per man and the US is paying 56 mp per man.


no i think i dont know if it was cruzzi or miragefla....someone said that the extra accuracy is to compensate for extra models for rifles...also yes you pay for them but it makes the squad more survivable...maybe u can check gren vs rifle vanilla in cheat mod..??
16 Nov 2015, 07:52 AM
#39
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

Another topic about remove UFS from this game. USF dont have another option, then build riflemans. HMG come late and are jokes versus rifle grenade. USF late game is hell versus horde Jaghtigers and Elephants. If USF lost his rifle sqads, then dont have any chance later.

USF need non-doctrinal Pershing and P-47. In trade can sacrifice strong infantry.

But now is only advance of USF riflemans.
16 Nov 2015, 08:05 AM
#40
avatar of Shanka

Posts: 323

YAY another whine thread about nerf USF :clap:

Yea keep on whining, that will surely help to get the problem solved :snfPeter:
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