[Sov][1v1] Lend Lease: Exploitation of tech free tanks

As the title says,

Lend lease's ability to allow the soviet player to not tech at all creates a huge exploit.

Problem: While the axis player has to spend mp and fuel on tech, the soviet player can abuse lend lease to spam conscripts, leaving him with a numerical superiority in the early game which can snowball. Furthermore, the soviet player can also access some critical units tech (and hence cost) free:

i.e. hmgs, Halftrack and M4C Shermans.

This allows the soviet player to overcome the axis player in a relatively low risk manner. (I am not claiming to be the best player but i think the end of match stats bear me out)

I submit the replay and screenshot as evidence.

This is the second time I've faced this today, its a bit frustrating.

Solution: Please bring Lend lease in line with all other commanders by restricting M4C shermans to tech buildings.

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  VS

  stfu

  Junaid

  Lend Lease Exploitation at its finest

  by: Junaid map: Arnhem Checkpoint

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Soviet build Sherman from their factory?

Anyway, the M4C is inferior to USF E8. But if you restrict M4C, then the same should happen with M10, Panzer IV Command Tank, Panther Command Tank, Stug E...

Soviet build Sherman from their factory?

Anyway, the M4C is inferior to USF E8. But if you restrict M4C, then the same should happen with M10, Panzer IV Command Tank, Panther Command Tank, Stug E...

I don't object to the restriction of all callin tanks to tech. Besides its unfair to rifle co. and all the t85 commanders too. Its a double standard.

Soviet build Sherman from their factory?

With Lend Lease Commander they call it in.

Stop trying to kill cpt molo from the game; he doesn't need to tech like all the other players.

Stop trying to kill cpt molo from the game; he doesn't need to tech like all the other players.

Correction: It's a Molokin, so we're allowed to kill off the runts of the family

Are we agreed that this is a balance problem?

If you can survive with zero tech to call in the 10cp Sherman, that's not an exploit that's a strat. The fuel plane is completely at the axis players mercy. If you cannot pressure a player who hasn't teched for any mechanized units with access to a more diverse army before 10cps, that's not an exploit.

If we are going to call no tech call in vehicles exploits because they changed T34-85, guess you want a command panther with 3 trucks built for OKW. No, because neither are exploits.

If you can survive with zero tech to call in the 10cp Sherman, that's not an exploit that's a strat. The fuel plane is completely at the axis players mercy. If you cannot pressure a player who hasn't teched for any mechanized units with access to a more diverse army before 10cps, that's not an exploit.

If we are going to call no tech call in vehicles exploits because they changed T34-85, guess you want a command panther with 3 trucks built for OKW. No, because neither are exploits.

He didnt call in any fuel planes.

Its not fuel here thats the issue, its the free mp.That allowed him to keep pumping out cons and take horrendous losses. At the same time I had to invest mp into teching cause otherwise I wouldn't have sufficient AT, so I was continually forced back and conceded territory. Only by the midgame was I able to pull ahead but by then I had 50vp so the damage was done.

Then he pulled those m4cs out of his ass and the match was decided cause I had not invested in a lot of AT, to keep fighting the con hordes. More importantly I lacked any vehicular AT so couldn't chase his first (damaged) m4. Effectively he was able to have approx. 1400 extra mp over me throughout the game (he saved 700ish, i had to spend 700ish on teching). I otoh couldn't stall for callins so I had to tech. Getting my point here?

Just watch the replay.

First, you need 222's if you see this, one will be enough to get most of the planes, 2 will lock out all fuel planes.

Two, if he does not tech he has to wait until 10cps, which should be too long, you should win by then.

Three, if he goes con spam, spam MG's, you win hands down.

Four, if you think him doing this just build up a couple of Stugs. Those Shermans are good, but they have no chance vs. Stugs.

When he gets DSHK's get a mortar, or go commander and get a MHT. Or just bunker down, and force him to build T2. Or get a sniper and pick off those MG gunners. Or, since he won't have any tanks, get a FHT (I don't like this as much because of scripts and DSHK together being able to destroy it if caught out of position). By spending his munitions on fuel he will not have much for mines, and nades, and molotov's. If he does use those then he won't have much for planes.

As mentioned by Switzerland your title is misleading, at best it should read "Lend Lease: Does it need to be adjusted?".

First, you need 222's if you see this, one will be enough to get most of the planes, 2 will lock out all fuel planes.

Two, if he does not tech he has to wait until 10cps, which should be too long, you should win by then.

Three, if he goes con spam, spam MG's, you win hands down.

Four, if you think him doing this just build up a couple of Stugs. Those Shermans are good, but they have no chance vs. Stugs.

When he gets DSHK's get a mortar, or go commander and get a MHT. Or just bunker down, and force him to build T2. Or get a sniper and pick off those MG gunners. Or, since he won't have any tanks, get a FHT (I don't like this as much because of scripts and DSHK together being able to destroy it if caught out of position). By spending his munitions on fuel he will not have much for mines, and nades, and molotov's. If he does use those then he won't have much for planes.

As mentioned by Switzerland your title is misleading, at best it should read "Lend Lease: Does it need to be adjusted?".

Ok sure adjust the title. Also, the real issue isnt fuel so much as mp. I dont recall seeing any fuel planes in that game

He didnt call in any fuel planes.

Its not fuel here thats the issue, its the free mp.That allowed him to keep pumping out cons and take horrendous losses. At the same time I had to invest mp into teching cause otherwise I wouldn't have sufficient AT

This is L2P issue.

If you went flame haftruck you can push him off map and you can call in puma to counter his quad and them seal the deal with command panzer.


Also this commader isnt anyway great , All it give you is sherman.

Dushka is good but maxim easily replaces it , you get no elite infantry , waiting for 5 CP to get useless call in ifnatry (AKA conscrips with ppsh [guards ])

Call in fuel that get shot dont , i would much rather build 3 mines.

Conscipr repair kit is nice but situational , its nothing game changing.

Sherman is only good think in this doctrine.



You need to go tier 1 m3 into dushka and tier 2 then suplly drop fuel and try to rush t 70 and then stall for sherman. Not a great strategy , i would much rather go cosncrips + maxim into shocks and fast t70 into zis wall and kv8 into is2 , its much better becuase you have mobile army , you get your should value in time (t70 => kv8 => is2 while in this doctrine you get duschka and sherman )


Also if you dont get guards you will need zis agains fast vehicle so tier 1 is not optimal opening.



Yes good commader but not OP , it can be outplayed if you know what youre doing.
It was L2P issue (i dont like to say it but it was). You lost because he was better not becuase that commader is OP and now you went here and start crying. Sorry for hearing true.

I never claimed he's OP. But I do feel it could be balanced a lot better by restricting the m4c to tech. Same for StuG E, Command panther etc.

All callins that require expensive teching to access a rough equivalent ought to be locked until said tech level / building is acquired.

All callins that require expensive teching to access a rough equivalent ought to be locked until said tech level / building is acquired.

Exactly my point. Why give the M4C a special exemption when the t34-85 doesn't have it?

Ost: P4 command tank, Puma, Elephant and Tiger.
OKW: Ostwind, JT
Soviet: ISU, Sherman and IS2.
USF: Pershing, Priest.

I don't see anything wrong with Soviet sherman call in.

Ost: P4 command tank, Puma, Elephant and Tiger.
OKW: Ostwind, JT
Soviet: ISU, Sherman and IS2.
USF: Pershing, Priest.

I don't see anything wrong with Soviet sherman call in.

See Jaedrik's post above, he summarized it much better than I can

First of all you cannot exploit sth that is intended secondly even a 222 shoots down fuel plane reliably. And finally if he can keep you at bay with only cons and DShKs till 10 cps then you did much worse than him this game. Staling to shermans is not an optimal strat. Face it.

I think it's fine.

If he foregoes teching, he gains minimal advantage. Sure, he saves a bit of manpower but he doesn't get the m4c sherman any quicker and he has much less tactical options available to him. Build a pair of stug's or a jagdpanzer or two and suddenly his epic strategy falls flat on its face with no back up plan.

I see a lot of players do this with the Stug E doctrine and this one, and I rarely see it work out well for them against an opponent who techs normally and builds sufficient AT.

T1 play is good with lend lease