Italy-Hungary-Romania faction a good idea?

I would really like to see a new axis faction in the game.
I think they should be based around the Italians as a main faction but with aspects of the Hungarian and Romanian armies of the time. (maybe by making a choice in one of the base buildings which then unlocks either Hungarian or Romanian troops similar to the Hammer/Anvil choice with the British)

The faction could contain cool units like the autoblinda armored car, blackshirts as infantry, the fiat P40 tank and so on...
I think Relic should also draw inspiration from the african and Italian fronts for the overall design of a faction like this. A commander I would like to see would be what I call "the desert fox doctrine" which contains a flak 88 emplacement (like Rommel used against the British in north-Africa)

I have a few ideas for the design of the faction (not complete yet) which I might share here.

So, is this a good idea or bad idea?

Great idea, we should also include Yugoslavia as a faction and maybe Zimbabwe.

I can already see the army theme:

"Faction goal is to provide veterancy source for the opponent at the minimal cost and maximum convenience, badly trained troops and irrelevant armor designs provide excelent target practice for allied factions, while giving the player feeling of being useful while your troops are being murdered by everything and anything while you provide living bullet wall for your german allies".

I can already see the army theme:

"Faction goal is to provide veterancy source for the opponent at the minimal cost and maximum convenience, badly trained troops and irrelevant armor designs provide excelent target practice for allied factions, while giving the player feeling of being useful while your troops are being murdered by everything and anything while you provide living bullet wall for your german allies".

It doesn't necessarily have to be this way. It's not because these nations historically had their buts kicked (mostly but not all the time) that they should be designed to be bad ingame. I think it would be interesting to have a faction like this in the game and besides, a game is meant to be fun. Making this faction potent enough will provide that fun factor.

These three factions combined had enough armor designs to compete with allied tanks although most of them only saw brief action in the actual war.
But we shouldn't let that stop this faction from being realized. I mean, even the Ostwind is in the game and only 45 of those were ever made.

For example:

-medium tank (akin to a panzer IV): Fiat P40
-AT gun (doctrinal or not, i have yet to decide): Romanian 75mm DT-UDR 26
-assault gun (comparable to brumbar): Hungarian Zrinyi II
-Elite infantry: Italian blackshirts (carrying Beretta modello 38 SMG's)
-light scout vehicle: Autoblinda 40/41 (counter to universal carrier for instance, starts out as 40 for AI and is upgradeable to 41 for light AT)
-tank destroyer: Romanian Maresal
-Heavy artillery (like the soviet B4): Obice da 210/22 modello 35 (doctrinal)

And so on...

That doesn't sound that bad right?

Opinion?

a faction inspired to the Italian front would be a good idea. It would fits the 1944/1945 theme of the latest factions without diverting too much, unlike an Afrika Korps faction.
Something combining italy and germans could be cool. There are a lot of germans vehicles not yet introduced ingame while italians would give something new to this game.

Anyway coh is not a realistic game xD, so, even the crappy italians vehicles can be introduced imo ( some of them, on paper, are not that bad).
The German soldier mod for men of war 2 introduced italy as a faction. There are some interesting units there

I've been working on an Italian faction mod for awhile now, limited to using existing models as stand-ins. I think I have something that's enjoyable to play and quite unique.

some blatant showing off :



and a couple doctrinal units with fancy portraits:
Folgore Paracudutisti
Guastatori (Elite Combat Engineers)
Alpini Light Infantry
Blackshirt Militia

Plenty of scope for interesting units, especially infantry. Italian soldiers were (in)famous for suffering from poor leadership, morale, and substandard equipment, but there were plenty of cases of RIA men fighting as hard as the best in any combatant's army, especially the paratrooper brigades and light infantry units.To reflect that I've got a simple 'morale' system bodged in- non-elite units suffer from various debuffs when outside friendly territory or out of cover. Requisitioning officers removes the debuffs.

Naturally there's a problem implementing heavier vehicles, for the historical reason that none actually existed For that reason the Italians play something like the allies- heavy on the infantry, but their vehicle tech tree peaks at the same level as the soviets and USF.

Now I just need playtesters...

I've been working on an Italian faction mod for awhile now, limited to using existing models as stand-ins. I think I have something that's enjoyable to play and quite unique.

some blatant showing off :



and a couple doctrinal units with fancy portraits:
Folgore Paracudutisti
Guastatori (Elite Combat Engineers)
Alpini Light Infantry
Blackshirt Militia

Plenty of scope for interesting units, especially infantry. Italian soldiers were (in)famous for suffering from poor leadership, morale, and substandard equipment, but there were plenty of cases of RIA men fighting as hard as the best in any combatant's army, especially the paratrooper brigades and light infantry units.To reflect that I've got a simple 'morale' system bodged in- non-elite units suffer from various debuffs when outside friendly territory or out of cover. Requisitioning officers removes the debuffs.

Naturally there's a problem implementing heavier vehicles, for the historical reason that none actually existed For that reason the Italians play something like the allies- heavy on the infantry, but their vehicle tech tree peaks at the same level as the soviets and USF.

Now I just need playtesters...

This looks good! I concur with your infantry heavy focus. As for the playtester thing, are you implying something?

This looks good! I concur with your infantry heavy focus. As for the playtester thing, are you implying something?

Thanks, and yes I am- i'd be glad to add anyone on steam if they'd like to give the mod a try

cool work strummingbird

Thanks, and yes I am- i'd be glad to add anyone on steam if they'd like to give the mod a try

Ok, I would certainly want to give the mod a try. I'll send you my steam profile link in a private message.

When someone mentions Italian faction as on Eastern front, I always remember that story of Soviet tank commander about Italian Army in USSR
(remember those vehicle skins from "Make War not Love" event?)


The brigade moved further and we got stuck in Verbyakovka for three days, while the maintenance technicians were digging around in the machine. Some general showed up who ordered me to move my tank to the outskirts for a watch “to prevent any bloody one to break in”. The tank was knocked down, but as a firing point it was quite effective.

When we got repaired we caught up with our troops. We arrived in the area; I will never forget the Cossack hamlet Khlebny. 3 km from there was another hamlet named Petrovsky. It was also occupied by Soviet tanks, but not those of our brigade. Between those two hamlets, which lay on hills, there was lowland.

Early in the morning the 8th Italian army was passing along that lowland in an enormous thick crowd saving itself from the encirclement. When the Italian vanguard units aligned with us we heard the command being distributed along our columns: “Go forward! Crush them!" Then we tore into them from both flanks!

I have never seen a mess as that one. We literally ground the Italian army into the soil. You should have looked into our eyes to see how much anger and hatred we had then! So we were squashing those Italians like bugs. It was winter; our tanks were painted in white color. When we disengaged from the battle the tanks below the turrets were red as if had floated in blood. I looked at the tracks: hands and fragments of skulls were stuck here and there. The spectacle was appalling.

We captured crowds of POWs that day. After that elimination the 8th Italian army literally ceased to exist. At least, I never saw a single Italian at the front after that.

- Otroschenkov Sergei Andreyevich - Captain, commander of T-34 tank.

stolen from http://iremember.ru/en/memoirs/tankers/otroschenkov-sergei-andreyevich/

When someone mentions Italian faction as on Eastern front, I always remember that story of Soviet tank commander about Italian Army in USSR
(remember those vehicle skins from "Make War not Love" event?)


The brigade moved further and we got stuck in Verbyakovka for three days, while the maintenance technicians were digging around in the machine. Some general showed up who ordered me to move my tank to the outskirts for a watch “to prevent any bloody one to break in”. The tank was knocked down, but as a firing point it was quite effective.

When we got repaired we caught up with our troops. We arrived in the area; I will never forget the Cossack hamlet Khlebny. 3 km from there was another hamlet named Petrovsky. It was also occupied by Soviet tanks, but not those of our brigade. Between those two hamlets, which lay on hills, there was lowland.

Early in the morning the 8th Italian army was passing along that lowland in an enormous thick crowd saving itself from the encirclement. When the Italian vanguard units aligned with us we heard the command being distributed along our columns: “Go forward! Crush them!" Then we tore into them from both flanks!

I have never seen a mess as that one. We literally ground the Italian army into the soil. You should have looked into our eyes to see how much anger and hatred we had then! So we were squashing those Italians like bugs. It was winter; our tanks were painted in white color. When we disengaged from the battle the tanks below the turrets were red as if had floated in blood. I looked at the tracks: hands and fragments of skulls were stuck here and there. The spectacle was appalling.

We captured crowds of POWs that day. After that elimination the 8th Italian army literally ceased to exist. At least, I never saw a single Italian at the front after that.

- Otroschenkov Sergei Andreyevich - Captain, commander of T-34 tank.

stolen from http://iremember.ru/en/memoirs/tankers/otroschenkov-sergei-andreyevich/

Cool story.

Italy is the forgotten campaign by a large mark, upstaged by D-day as the Allies marched into Rome.

Strum very nice sir.

I've been working on an Italian faction mod for awhile now, limited to using existing models as stand-ins. I think I have something that's enjoyable to play and quite unique.

some blatant showing off :



and a couple doctrinal units with fancy portraits:
Folgore Paracudutisti
Guastatori (Elite Combat Engineers)
Alpini Light Infantry
Blackshirt Militia

Plenty of scope for interesting units, especially infantry. Italian soldiers were (in)famous for suffering from poor leadership, morale, and substandard equipment, but there were plenty of cases of RIA men fighting as hard as the best in any combatant's army, especially the paratrooper brigades and light infantry units.To reflect that I've got a simple 'morale' system bodged in- non-elite units suffer from various debuffs when outside friendly territory or out of cover. Requisitioning officers removes the debuffs.

Naturally there's a problem implementing heavier vehicles, for the historical reason that none actually existed For that reason the Italians play something like the allies- heavy on the infantry, but their vehicle tech tree peaks at the same level as the soviets and USF.

Now I just need playtesters...

Thats cool to actually see somebody do something about it. Instead of just say i want italians, romanians, and blah... blah..

nice going!

I've been working on an Italian faction mod for awhile now, limited to using existing models as stand-ins. I think I have something that's enjoyable to play and quite unique.

some blatant showing off :



and a couple doctrinal units with fancy portraits:
Folgore Paracudutisti
Guastatori (Elite Combat Engineers)
Alpini Light Infantry
Blackshirt Militia

Plenty of scope for interesting units, especially infantry. Italian soldiers were (in)famous for suffering from poor leadership, morale, and substandard equipment, but there were plenty of cases of RIA men fighting as hard as the best in any combatant's army, especially the paratrooper brigades and light infantry units.To reflect that I've got a simple 'morale' system bodged in- non-elite units suffer from various debuffs when outside friendly territory or out of cover. Requisitioning officers removes the debuffs.

Naturally there's a problem implementing heavier vehicles, for the historical reason that none actually existed For that reason the Italians play something like the allies- heavy on the infantry, but their vehicle tech tree peaks at the same level as the soviets and USF.

Now I just need playtesters...

Good to see someone coming up with designs for an extra faction. If playtesters are still needed, sign me up... if I can get my CoH2 to cooperate

I've played the Italians in Men of War 2: Assault Squad in multiplayer games, and they are actually viable.

In the early game Italian armour is available very early in MoW2 since it's so cheap, which gives an Italian player a credible means to push and grab territory. Adding the M15/42 and/or Semovente 47/32 to your tech tree would be one way to allow that.

The real problem is late game, since the Italian industry fell behind in R&D so there's no heavy armour to speak of. The Semovente 90/53 is your only option for a late game tank destroyer, and the P26/40 is no better than a Sherman. MoW2 gets around this with prototypes that never made it off the drawing board, but I don't think that will work well for CoH2. If you can design around that limitation, an Italian faction could work.


Romanians have less of a problem here, since they purchased a large amount of German equipment to fill the gaps in their arsenal. They also took older tanks and refitted them for their own tank destroyers, resulting in the TACAM R-2 (A turretless Panzer 35(t) with a captured ZIS-3 gun) and the TACAM T-60 (turretless captured T-60 with an F-22). They also developed their own anti-tank gun that performed better than the PaK40, the Resita 75mm.


Hungarians are in an even better position because they have more nationally-built vehicles to choose from, without having to borrow much from the Germans. There's light tanks, assault guns, and armoured cars available, so the only thing they really need is German-built medium and heavy tanks, of which the Panzer IV, Panther, and Tiger are all examples that they bought and used. To make these German tanks not be carbon copies you can give them Hungarian-specific abilities inspired by how they were trained differently.


If I had to pick only one of these, I'd go with Hungarians. They'd be the easiest to balance, and they have enough unique equipment to make them interesting.

Toldi I, with upgrade to Toldi II - Light Tank
Turan, with upgrade to Turan II - Light-Medium Tank
Nimrod - Anti-aircraft tank, similar to Ostwind
Zrinyi - Assault gun, similar to StuH 42
Csaba - Armoured car
40mm 40M - Light anti-tank gun, can fire a special rocket round that penetrates nearly anything as a MU ability
Solothurn 20mm - Anti-tank rifle, weapon crew, more powerful than Boys or PTRS
Various machine-guns, mortars, anti-aircraft guns, and artillery pieces were also made in Hungary, or purchased from non-German suppliers.

I've played the Italians in Men of War 2: Assault Squad in multiplayer games, and they are actually viable.

In the early game Italian armour is available very early in MoW2 since it's so cheap, which gives an Italian player a credible means to push and grab territory. Adding the M15/42 and/or Semovente 47/32 to your tech tree would be one way to allow that.

The real problem is late game, since the Italian industry fell behind in R&D so there's no heavy armour to speak of. The Semovente 90/53 is your only option for a late game tank destroyer, and the P26/40 is no better than a Sherman. MoW2 gets around this with prototypes that never made it off the drawing board, but I don't think that will work well for CoH2. If you can design around that limitation, an Italian faction could work.


Romanians have less of a problem here, since they purchased a large amount of German equipment to fill the gaps in their arsenal. They also took older tanks and refitted them for their own tank destroyers, resulting in the TACAM R-2 (A turretless Panzer 35(t) with a captured ZIS-3 gun) and the TACAM T-60 (turretless captured T-60 with an F-22). They also developed their own anti-tank gun that performed better than the PaK40, the Resita 75mm.

Hungarians are in an even better position because they have more nationally-built vehicles to choose from, without having to borrow much from the Germans. There's light tanks, assault guns, and armoured cars available, so the only thing they really need is German-built medium and heavy tanks, of which the Panzer IV, Panther, and Tiger are all examples that they bought and used. To make these German tanks not be carbon copies you can give them Hungarian-specific abilities inspired by how they were trained differently.


If I had to pick only one of these, I'd go with Hungarians. They'd be the easiest to balance, and they have enough unique equipment to make them interesting.

Toldi I, with upgrade to Toldi II - Light Tank
Turan, with upgrade to Turan II - Light-Medium Tank
Nimrod - Anti-aircraft tank, similar to Ostwind
Zrinyi - Assault gun, similar to StuH 42
Csaba - Armoured car
40mm 40M - Light anti-tank gun, can fire a special rocket round that penetrates nearly anything as a MU ability
Solothurn 20mm - Anti-tank rifle, weapon crew, more powerful than Boys or PTRS
Various machine-guns, mortars, anti-aircraft guns, and artillery pieces were also made in Hungary, or purchased from non-German suppliers.

Great comment, you certainly know your stuff and I agree with your assesment but I was more aiming towards combining the Italians, Hungarians and Romanians into one faction. This way you can actually design around much limitations of each individual one. What is your opinion on that?

Solothurn 20mm - Anti-tank rifle, weapon crew, more powerful than Boys or PTRS

I like the idea of light AT implemented through weapon crew with limited arc of fire and setup time, but quick one - like maxim have.

I like the idea of light AT implemented through weapon crew with limited arc of fire and setup time, but quick one - like maxim have.

for that implementation I would suggest the 47mm Cannone da 47/32 M35 rather than the solothurn AT rifle.

I want Italy with german support tanks , p3 as cheap main line tank with good Ai capability, 88 AA , good aircraft , strong infantry and africa corps style commaders