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Why do S mines have signs?

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10 Nov 2015, 08:08 AM
#21
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 04:22 AMUnited
I thought the whole point of mines was to use surprise. S mines are the most expensive mines in the game, and they come with signs. Why?

-all mines can squad wipe

-all mines except S mines do engine damage

-S mines require consistant procs to squad wipe

Please dont say something about "area denial" we are talking about mines here and sweepers are not hard.


The same size minefield would cost 120 muni from any other faction (maybe the equivalent of 160 muni for OKW because of resource penalty). Granted, the other mines are dual purpose but they're still as expensive as an AI and AT minefield combined. I do think that OKW should get a cost decrease on their mines, especially with the current Crocodile infestation.

In general, I'm not a fan of the signs. My guess is that Relic thought that it was a fair trade for the mines being more lethal.
10 Nov 2015, 08:08 AM
#22
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1




well ill be, counterplay you say. but did you know that riflemen dont say anything when walking into S-mines? So unless you're the GOD at micro himself, while microing ur other precious usf units,theyll just walk into these suggested invisible 15 muni 5 seconds to build s-mines that OP wants and die! Silently! You wont even notice till you see that unit icon disapear off the unit bar out of the corner of your eye,and hear "we've lost a unit!" SINCE RIFLEMEN DONT USE A VOICE LINE FOR MINEFIELDS.


S-mines would need a massive nurf if they are gonna be invisible.

BTW lets not act like Grens always die to one soviet mine,and if ur walking grens into territory sov has owned for most of the game without sweeping ur a n00b anyway. Thats just coh2 1oh1.


k im a n00b, allied mines rarely wipe squads(again i never said always, why do people always try to put words in my mouth? i clearly said "MORE OFTEN THAN YOU THINK") and finally, how often do you see sminefields ingame? how often did they build them in tournaments? ;)

ps: did you kow grens dont tell anything about mines too when their are wiped? lol
10 Nov 2015, 08:12 AM
#23
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1

S mine fields have signs in front of them due in part because of their original form; the area of coverage was about twice as large and the cost was doubled, making them extremely effective at area denial, yet hard to access (because 120 mu was required to lay even one quadrant).

The signs are fine, I think. The quadrants are large enough to manipulate them how you want; you can put a quadrant in front of a door, you can put two quadrants between two fences, you can cover a capture point in all four quadrants, etc.

I would strongly recommend triple stacking the s/teller mine reduction bulletins. Teller mines are 41.5 muni, S-mines are 49 muni. Works great when you're saving muni late game for Stuka CAS... ;)
10 Nov 2015, 08:18 AM
#24
avatar of CookiezNcreem
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k im a n00b, allied mines rarely wipe squads(again i never said always, why do people always try to put words in my mouth? i clearly said "MORE OFTEN THAN YOU THINK") and finally, how often do you see sminefields ingame? how often did they build them in tournaments? ;)

ps: did you kow grens dont tell anything about mines too when their are wiped? lol



Dude seriouslee? If riflemen dont say shit when getting oneshotted even in the unbuffed state of s-mines,why would we buff the one-shot s-mines to be like soviet ones????

Because fuck USF? I mean why?



"meanwhile axis 4 man squads just gets deleted in 0.1 seconds without counterplay (except sweeper). sminefield you still got 2 seconds to retreat."



"no counterplay" "Deleted in 0.1 seconds!"

implies that it gets one shotted all the time. Because otherwise the counterplay is to fucking retreat your 1,2 man squad because it was just one mine and your squad is still alive despite your micro mistake of not having a sweeper at 100000% all times,not 4 small ones that your squad will wipeitself over while continuing to walk into it.

10 Nov 2015, 08:22 AM
#25
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819


Unless you have instant reflexes, you can't react to an S Mine on the flanks for example. Your squad will just die.


Unless you have instant reflexes, you can't react to an soviet mine on the flanks for example. Your squad will just die. See what I did there?


implies that it gets one shotted all the time. Because otherwise the counterplay is to fucking retreat your 1,2 man squad because it was just one mine and your squad is still alive despite your micro mistake of not having a sweeper at 100000% all times,not 4 small ones that your squad will wipeitself over while continuing to walk into it.


S mines don't always wipe squads. Plus you hear the mines going off and then you can react. Also, a 15muni field does not wipe squads that often.

It makes no sense to have 4 signs on this man, absolutely not.
It means you can't place the minefield in an open area because the enemy can not look over the signs. 4 fucking signs on each corner, does this make sense?

The fun part about S-mines is when you sneak your pios to the back and put it on a retreat path. Then watch a bunch of rifle squads run back to base through it. Insta gg right there.


Although I agree, it's not something you can do a lot of your enemy is a bit aware of things ;)
10 Nov 2015, 08:24 AM
#26
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1




Dude seriouslee? If riflemen dont say shit when getting oneshotted even in the unbuffed state of s-mines,why would we buff the one-shot s-mines to be like soviet ones????

Because fuck USF? I mean why?





implies that it gets one shotted all the time. Because otherwise the counterplay is to fucking retreat your 1,2 man squad because it was just one mine and your squad is still alive despite your micro mistake of not having a sweeper at 100000% all times,not 4 small ones that your squad will wipeitself over while continuing to walk into it.



you are seriouslee confused my friend. that doenst imply (implying my ass, thats putting words in my mouth. im responsible for things i say, not for things you think im saying) anything related to how often it happends. (but im not a native english speaker so please enlight me in which way i said it always happends)
we dont want to buff smines either, we want to remove the sign or replace it with the same mine the allys got. did someone piss in your coffee this morning?

10 Nov 2015, 08:32 AM
#27
avatar of CookiezNcreem
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you are seriouslee confused my friend. that doenst imply(implying my ass, thats putting words in my mouth. im responsible for things i say, not for things you think im saying) anything related to how often it happends. (but im not a native english speaker so please enlight me in which way i said it always happends)
we dont want to buff smines either, we want to remove the sign or replace it with the same mine the allys got. did someone piss in your coffee this morning?



:snfPeter: ........ if you remove the sign then you buff them to be exactly like soviet ones except unlike soviet ones youll always lose a whole squad if you "accidentally" walk into these on the flank because riflemen dont have voice lines to alert you of them dying,if conscripts do then its not "Oh we hit a minefield" its something like "we;re taking losses" SO HOPEFULLY We're over that comparison now... hopefully. :foreveralone:



Unless you have instant reflexes, you an't react to an soviet mine on the flanks for example. Your squad will just die.

It makes no sense to have signs on this man, absolutely not.


see above pls.

Its been proven that they(SOVIET MINES) dont one shot a squad everytime you stumble onto them. If its happening to you alot I suggest rubbing a genie lamp or something for good luck. So please stop using that argument :foreveralone:
10 Nov 2015, 08:35 AM
#28
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819



:snfPeter: ........ if you remove the sign then you buff them to be exactly like soviet ones except unlike soviet ones youll always lose a whole squad if you "accidentally" walk into these on the flank because riflemen dont have voice lines to alert you of them dying. We're over that comparison now, hopefully. :foreveralone:



see above pls.

Its been proven that they dont one shot a squad everytime you stumble onto them. If its happening to you alot I suggest rubbing a genie lamp or something for good luck. So please stop using that argument :foreveralone:


Whatever dude. Looks like there is not point in reasoning with you.

e: :foreveralone::snfPeter:
10 Nov 2015, 08:36 AM
#29
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

my cheatmod doesnt work anymore (doesnt show up anymore since patch, reinstalling etc wont work..), can someone do some testing with mines and how prone squads are to be wiped? i cant back it up with facts i just experienced it ingame after a patch which changed clumping and aoe effects etc and saw some threads about it at the same time.



Its been proven that they(SOVIET MINES) dont one shot a squad everytime you stumble onto them. If its happening to you alot I suggest rubbing a genie lamp or something for good luck. So please stop using that argument :foreveralone:


10 Nov 2015, 08:46 AM
#30
avatar of CookiezNcreem
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Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15



Whatever dude. Looks like there is not point in reasoning with you.

e: :foreveralone::snfPeter:


how am i gonna reason with your logic when im one of the biggest usf fanbois on this forum and i still have more axis games and therefore more expierience against these nuclear soviet mines than you? :guyokay:
10 Nov 2015, 08:47 AM
#31
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



how am i gonna reason with your logic when im one of the biggest usf fanbois on this forum and i still have more axis games and therefore more expierience against these nuclear soviet mines than you? :guyokay:

because allied mines are nuclear since a patch 1-2 months ago, your ranks are all on hold so you didnt play that many axis game in that time, heh?
10 Nov 2015, 09:00 AM
#32
avatar of CookiezNcreem
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because allied mines are nuclear since a patch 1-2 months ago, your ranks are all on hold so you didnt play that many axis game in that time, heh?


ok I guess 2v2 doesnt count. anyway

I did a test with soviet mines



4 man gren squad only got one-shot wiped once out of 9 tries,and that was only when i purposefully bunched up their formation myself. Otherwise they took anywhere between 1 and 3 losses,depending on bunchyness. Squads get wiped when they bunch up around corners or into doors, not in wide open fields or long corridors, which isnt a problem with the soviet mine,but a problem with squad bunchy wedgie ai.

Meanwhile,s-mines still wipe whole rifle squads if ur not 1000% on ur game,regardless of how much they bunch up.
10 Nov 2015, 09:06 AM
#33
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



ok I guess 2v2 doesnt count. anyway

I did a test with soviet mines



4 man gren squad only got one-shot wiped once out of 9 tries,and that was only when i purposefully bunched up their formation myself. Otherwise they took anywhere between 1 and 3 losses,depending on bunchyness. Squads get wiped when they bunch up around corners or into doors, not in wide open fields or long corridors, which isnt a problem with the soviet mine,but a problem with squad bunchy wedgie ai.

Meanwhile,s-mines still wipe whole rifle squads if ur not 1000% on ur game,regardless of how much they bunch up.

1 from 10 on open field means alot tbh. now imagine semoski or other more narrow maps and there you have your good chance of a wipe.
10 Nov 2015, 09:08 AM
#34
avatar of CookiezNcreem
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Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15


1 from 10 on open field means alot tbh. now imagine semoski or other more narrow maps and there you have your good chance of a wipe.


Ok so whats our plan of action then? Do we nerf squad bunching, or buff s-mines to further exacerbate the issue of one shots in coh2?? :snfPeter:
10 Nov 2015, 09:30 AM
#35
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



Ok so whats our plan of action then? Do we nerf squad bunching, or buff s-mines to further exacerbate the issue of one shots in coh2?? :snfPeter:


revert the changes to the state before they started to wipe units at full health. just like it used to be all time before? and remove sign or remove smine field completly and make it doctrinal and give the same mine clone every faction has except ost, voilá
10 Nov 2015, 09:32 AM
#36
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

or how about we lower s mine wipe potential to that like the soviet one you were testing, remove the sign, and remove them being in large fields?

I think the Op here was going for the utility s-mines lack due to the signs. I.e i couldn't place one in a field to help against advancing infantry. Would be great to use mines, overlapped by smg in some of the more open areas. Something I can do as Allied way easier compared to Axis. Easier being that there's not a big indicator there is a mine field in my advance. As allied it would simply mean, get sweeper, now attack. As axis the same method would get one of the squads at least as they crossed.

10 Nov 2015, 09:37 AM
#37
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

The real question is, are s-minefields effective and balanced in game? and the answer is yes.

So why change them?
10 Nov 2015, 09:44 AM
#38
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 09:37 AMwuff
The real question is, are s-minefields effective and balanced in game? and the answer is yes.

So why change them?

how often do you see them? at my noob elo never and all the games i watched in ocf noone did build one too. so maybe theres a sweet spot between highest skilled and noobs were everyone is building these "fine" mines.
10 Nov 2015, 09:48 AM
#39
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

The buff train has no breaks. Lets only think about stopping when s mines 1shot tanks, because even then they would be underpowered.
10 Nov 2015, 09:50 AM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


how often do you see them? at my noob elo never and all the games i watched in ocf noone did build one too. so maybe theres a sweet spot between highest skilled and noobs were everyone is building these "fine" mines.

Doesn't HelpingHans use them on regular basis?
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