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russian armor

lmg should be limited to one per squad

8 Nov 2015, 12:04 PM
#1
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

lmg are far too dominate in the game, especially in cases where it's possible to get two per squad.

even the relatively weaker bren gun get ridiculous once the British gotten the chance to equip two per squad. Rifleman just become insane once they reach vet 3 and get two m1919 per squad.

The only squads that should be allowed to have two lmg per squad is the paratrooper and the guards, since both units are actually pretty well balanced around their high dps.
8 Nov 2015, 12:16 PM
#2
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Dual DP is fine.
8 Nov 2015, 13:42 PM
#3
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Dual m1919/Bar REs :foreveralone:
8 Nov 2015, 13:53 PM
#4
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

I agree to this point. Else Axis should have the same utility to 2 LMGs
8 Nov 2015, 13:57 PM
#5
avatar of sneakking

Posts: 655

Permanently Banned
>people who don't understand DPS values
8 Nov 2015, 14:18 PM
#6
avatar of tenid

Posts: 232

I don't see any reason why axis squads (i.e. grenadiers) should get 2 lmgs considering their other utility.
8 Nov 2015, 15:08 PM
#7
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 14:18 PMtenid
I don't see any reason why axis squads (i.e. grenadiers) should get 2 lmgs considering their other utility.


while I dont think grenadiers should get two lmgs. Please explain what this other utility is. Because it sounds like that utility you're talking about outweighs the utility of the allied squad (i.e riflemen).
8 Nov 2015, 15:09 PM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



while I dont think grenadiers should get two lmgs. Please explain what this other utility is. Because it sounds like that utility you're talking about outweighs the utility of the allied squad (i.e riflemen).


I think you could compare total fuel investment of allied infantry to that you need to pay as a side tech for grens to unlock fausts, nades and lmgs.
8 Nov 2015, 15:17 PM
#9
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128



I think you could compare total fuel investment of allied infantry to that you need to pay as a side tech for grens to unlock fausts, nades and lmgs.


while i get what you're saying I'm not sure the original poster was going for that. Which is why I asked for him to elaborate.

So gren squad comes out of the box with pfasut, can be upgraded to lmg42, and gets rifle nade. 4 man squad cost 240 mp.

riflemen- cost 280 mp, 5 man squad, requires global upgrade for nades and weapon rack. IIRC the total fuel investment is 60 fuel, dont remember the mp number


I'm comparing riflemen to grens here because it seems like the thread OP is on about rifle dbl mg blobs.
8 Nov 2015, 15:23 PM
#10
avatar of tenid

Posts: 232

Well, looking at grenadiers in particular largely from a brit perspective.

You have the panzerfaust, which is enough to counter or mitigate brit vehicles until medium armour. Even end game this makes grens significant when using armour since a broken engine can spell death by pak 40 pretty easily. To be any sort of threat to armour an infantry section has to take a PIAT, thus giving up one of the weapon slots.

There's the rifle nade, which if nothing else means having to watch every engagement with grens carefully. An infantry section will rarely do anything other than find cover to shoot from since the grenades generally aren't worth the teching costs. The rifle nade also gives limited utility against MGs.

Finally you also get your LMG delivered on field. Combine that with a halftrack for reenforcement and you have a pretty potent early/mid game combo.

8 Nov 2015, 15:26 PM
#11
avatar of Stafkeh
Patrion 14

Posts: 1006

Or, when you upgrade Grens with LMG's you lose the faust :)
8 Nov 2015, 15:32 PM
#12
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

While we are discussing about lmgs conscripts cry in corner.

Give them one Dp28 for 40 munny after russian player build 4th tier (whitch is out of meta right now a lot)
8 Nov 2015, 15:42 PM
#13
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 15:23 PMtenid
Well, looking at grenadiers in particular largely from a brit perspective.

You have the panzerfaust, which is enough to counter or mitigate brit vehicles until medium armour. Even end game this makes grens significant when using armour since a broken engine can spell death by pak 40 pretty easily. To be any sort of threat to armour an infantry section has to take a PIAT, thus giving up one of the weapon slots.

There's the rifle nade, which if nothing else means having to watch every engagement with grens carefully. An infantry section will rarely do anything other than find cover to shoot from since the grenades generally aren't worth the teching costs. The rifle nade also gives limited utility against MGs.

Finally you also get your LMG delivered on field. Combine that with a halftrack for reenforcement and you have a pretty potent early/mid game combo.



all very good points. Minus the mobility of the 251 comapred to the ambulance..riflemen can do all of that as well. The pineapple isn't as hard to notice as the RG but the time delay isnt long either if you dont catch it before it lands. I forget if its rifle company specific or universal but with vet upgrade they get an at nade of some sort as well.
8 Nov 2015, 15:43 PM
#14
avatar of F1sh

Posts: 521

Bad idea, you want to destroy USF's strongpoint?


While we are discussing about lmgs conscripts cry in corner.

Give them one Dp28 for 40 munny after russian player build 4th tier (whitch is out of meta right now a lot)


this, Conscripts late game is throwing AT nades and molotovs. :thumb:
8 Nov 2015, 22:42 PM
#15
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

Dual m1919/Bar REs :foreveralone:

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 15:43 PMF1sh
Bad idea, you want to destroy USF's strongpoint?


I meant the lmg42, lmg34, rifleman m1919a6 and bren. I said that the guards (dp28) are fine.

Dual m1919/Bar REs :foreveralone:

the Bar is also fine. It's not considered a LMG since it the game consider it an assault rifle.

Both the bazooka and bar are obviously weaker weapon upgrade. They are meant to be dual wielded. That's why I've been asking for a decrease in the bar's price.

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 15:23 PMtenid
Well, looking at grenadiers in particular largely from a brit perspective.

You have the panzerfaust, which is enough to counter or mitigate brit vehicles until medium armour. Even end game this makes grens significant when using armour since a broken engine can spell death by pak 40 pretty easily. To be any sort of threat to armour an infantry section has to take a PIAT, thus giving up one of the weapon slots.

There's the rifle nade, which if nothing else means having to watch every engagement with grens carefully. An infantry section will rarely do anything other than find cover to shoot from since the grenades generally aren't worth the teching costs. The rifle nade also gives limited utility against MGs.

Finally you also get your LMG delivered on field. Combine that with a halftrack for reenforcement and you have a pretty potent early/mid game combo.



rifleman have access to at nade, grenade, and smoke.

Tommy have medical kit, or sight/arty. Tommies are also one of the most durable squad in the game. The mills bomb is also a clone of the US pineapple, with cheaper use cost (25 vs 30), shorter timer, and no minimal range. People keep dismissing the mills bomb, when in fact the ability is actually a much superior grenade than the pineapple.

Grenadier's faust, riflenade, and lmg42 are probably the "best" in their category, but they pay for it with durability.

9 Nov 2015, 00:23 AM
#16
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

You can delete Gren Riflenade anyday.Faust is nowhere near what it was.
9 Nov 2015, 00:59 AM
#17
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

You can delete Gren Riflenade anyday.Faust is nowhere near what it was.


Gren riflenade is the most unique and important thing grens have. For me you can take lmgs off them with some other buffs but riflenade must stay as it is.
9 Nov 2015, 01:42 AM
#18
avatar of tenid

Posts: 232

The rifle nade works well with how grens (normally) work - at long range. The mills bomb works counter to how tommies normally work.

The whole reason for two weapon slots on allied inf is to give them a choice of anti inf specialization, anti tank specialization or a mix of both. It's just that anti inf is usually the better choice. If tommies were limited to either a PIAT or a bren, I'd never take the PIAT, not that it would change much...
9 Nov 2015, 02:53 AM
#19
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 01:42 AMtenid
The rifle nade works well with how grens (normally) work - at long range. The mills bomb works counter to how tommies normally work.

The whole reason for two weapon slots on allied inf is to give them a choice of anti inf specialization, anti tank specialization or a mix of both. It's just that anti inf is usually the better choice. If tommies were limited to either a PIAT or a bren, I'd never take the PIAT, not that it would change much...


the tommies' artillery should have a range of 30. This way you get the mills bomb for up close and a 25 pdr barrage for far away.
9 Nov 2015, 03:31 AM
#20
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

I feel like Firesparks should balance the game because pretty much everything he says is on point. (And having played him, he's a pretty good player.)

+1 OP

Also realistically having two LMGs per squad makes little sense because the squad couldn't hold all the ammo required.
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