USF cakewalks OKW and Ostheer

USF has become a true joke now. From being totally useless a few patches ago to simply wiping the floor with both Axis factions early game, but OKW has got to be the easiest wipe of them all. I find USF to be hilariously easy and they are the easiest faction to play right now.

Apart from a few maps, it is almost impossible as OKW to beat a USF player that uses riflespam, let alone have a chance of doing so. Your core infantry can't compete with the riflemen, your core infantry is outclassed by the riflemen, your core infantry can't 1v1 a riflemen squad on equal footing, meaning you will have to keep them together and thus sacrifice a lot of map presence. This will result in the USF having a major resource advantage, which will result in a fast tech to seal the deal.

You can try to rush an mg34 out of desperation, but by that time a USF player can have the grenade package, or research it as soon as it sees the mg34. A minute later, the mg34 is countered, and you again have no means of controling the rifle horde. Further more, 3 rifle squads comming from multiple sides will overwhelm any mg34, even supported, without smoke. In the meanwhile on RE squad is capping the entire field whilst you are busy trying to just survive the riflemen onslaught. The m20 or stuart rolls out supported by the riflehordes and the free tech unit and it is pretty much gg, not even an LeIG can save you.

If this wasn't enough, the best stock core infantry unit in the game, that dominates every early game situation and can dominate every axis core infantry unit early game, can have flamethrowers at 3cp. Just lol.

I know my ways to counter this on open maps, like I have described here: http://www.coh2.org/topic/44159/how-does-one-counter-us-flamer-blob/post/432377

but on cramped maps with a lot of sight blockers and multiple ways of approach, you can't control USF rifle hordes, there is no way.

Please discuss and help Axis players with dealing with this utter nonsense.

Niet zoveel ragen jij nederlander haha.

I tend to agree, but look at my post in the thread you provided as evidence here. I have described a tactic that I use to fight USF on open maps, one that is quite effective.

On clustered maps, with a lot of sight blockers and multiple ways of approach, there is pretty much no chance of anyone but pro players countering USF riflemen spam. I would tend to agree that it is a cakewalk on these clustered maps. But then again, a lot of the maps are just horribly designed anyway.

Edit: you seem to have tagged my post in the thread you linked by chance. Would suggest people to look at it.

Edit2: Decided to post it here anyway:

As Ostheer, I tend to agree with AngryKitten465. Yet that strategy can fail pretty hard by one simple over extension.

As OKW, the possibilities aren't so limited. Your build order:
-Starting sturmpio
-3 to 4 volks
-raketten werfer
-battlegroup headquarters
-LeIG
-Schwere Panzer HQ
-Panzer 2 Luchs
-Panzer 4

Your first sturmpio squad must rush forward and occupy any important garrison after it has captured one or two forward points. Your first build volks squad goes to your nearest fuel point and connects the inter laying cap points that connect said fuel. Your second volks squad goes straight to the middle and goes and support your sturmpios that are in the important garrison. Your third volks squad goes and caps on the opposite side of the first volks squad. The fourth volk squad is going to either support the garrison or support the third capping volks squad.

Next get a raketten and after this setup the battlegroup headquarters. Get an LeIG first and then a second raketten werfer if needed. He needs to get rid of the garrison, so he will tech grenades, which will cost him fuel and eventually ammo. No flamers before 3cp and you can dogde grenades easily. Keep supporting garrison until m20 arrives. Upgrade a single volks squad with shrecks and hunt the expected m20 and bait it into the now cloaked raketren, same goes for stuart. If you kill, immediately salvage it if possible.

by this time, or soon after,you will have enough fuel for Schwere Panzer HQ, put this on your fuel strategically, so it isn't totally exposed to at gun snipe etc. Now by this time you will encounter flamers, so abandon the garrison. simply keep your volks in groups of 2 and focus fire on single squads in order to whiddle them down quickly. Don't let them get into range and try to bait them to schwere. Rush panzer 2 and drive the flamer rifles back. If he blobs, blob back with 4 volks supported by Panzer 2.

Get another shreck squad, make sure you have double raketten and keep adding pressure with the focus on never losing too much map presence, so back paddle and soft retreat when needed. Hold out this way until you get your Panzer 4. There is no way for him to counter this other than overextending himself when trying to dislodge your Schwere Panzer HQ, which will give you great oppertunities to punish him for it.

From there on, you can easily contain the flamer threat with Panzer 2 luchs supported by volks and Panzer 4 and vice versa. Double shrecks with double raketten with Panzer 4 will deter any Easy 8 or regular sherman you wil face.

Don't rely on call in mgs, they simply get smoked and cleared. Teach yourself to fight efficiently without doctrines. OKW is more than powerful enough to fight without them.

Good luck

I don't think Riflemen flame blob as potent as it use to be. If you are having trouble with Riflemen early game aggression, have you tried using Kubel? I find MG-34 is not even worth it at the moment, keeping Kubel alive can save you from all the flanks. Also, if your kubel dies you can salvage and build another one if needed.

Us Osteer players are free wins right now unless we support lelics balance team and buy mechanized assault, and why the garden would I give relic money by buying DLC to be competitive in a "esports" game.

I gave up on Ostheer 1v1's. Every game involves USF and choking.

Maybe in the hour long corridor meatgrinder marathon that is 4v4 things are "balanced" but if Ostheer is ever going to win a 1v1 it needs buffs, a modernization rework, or USF needs to get nerfed.

USF has become a true joke now. From being totally useless a few patches ago to simply wiping the floor with both Axis factions early game, but OKW has got to be the easiest wipe of them all. I find USF to be hilariously easy and they are the easiest faction to play right now.

Apart from a few maps, it is almost impossible as OKW to beat a USF player that uses riflespam, let alone have a chance of doing so. Your core infantry can't compete with the riflemen, your core infantry is outclassed by the riflemen, your core infantry can't 1v1 a riflemen squad on equal footing, meaning you will have to keep them together and thus sacrifice a lot of map presence. This will result in the USF having a major resource advantage, which will result in a fast tech to seal the deal.

You can try to rush an mg34 out of desperation, but by that time a USF player can have the grenade package, or research it as soon as it sees the mg34. A minute later, the mg34 is countered, and you again have no means of controling the rifle horde. Further more, 3 rifle squads comming from multiple sides will overwhelm any mg34, even supported, without smoke. In the meanwhile on RE squad is capping the entire field whilst you are busy trying to just survive the riflemen onslaught. The m20 or stuart rolls out supported by the riflehordes and the free tech unit and it is pretty much gg, not even an LeIG can save you.

If this wasn't enough, the best stock core infantry unit in the game, that dominates every early game situation and can dominate every axis core infantry unit early game, can have flamethrowers at 3cp. Just lol.

I know my ways to counter this on open maps, like I have described here: http://www.coh2.org/topic/44159/how-does-one-counter-us-flamer-blob/post/432377

but on cramped maps with a lot of sight blockers and multiple ways of approach, you can't control USF rifle hordes, there is no way.

Please discuss and help Axis players with dealing with this utter nonsense.

my rank is some where near 430 with both usf and wermaht

in my last days i just lostand lost with usf i dont see how can i dominate early game

vs okw they get kubel with some okw enginers cut my point pin my rifels thet try to recap efter some seconds coming the AA HT and thets it its a gg if i went cap i cant get ifun fuel for stuart if i went letinant m20 wont help me much

vs wermaht they get mg first off all if its in a biulding i cant do much vs it after a few minutes they get 222 and thets it my game stopes right there they go for my cut off point cut me withoutfuel if i get m20 the 222 will conter it if i get capten i wont have enough fuel for a stuart nour for granades cos i realy need them for this mgs thet f@ck me

i find my self losing early game i am an avrage player like i told you can cheak my profile and i dont see usf surviving the early game vs a good aixe player [at low lvls it feels ez to win with usf you are right about it ]

so can you informate me how do i became so OP if i get hard conter from the start ?

Nobody wants to hear that in this forum. They will argue that Axis still is OP and beg for more Riflebuffs...

Obvious Katitof Damage Control post in 3 ... 2 ... 1

Ignore, Wrong stats.

@AngryKitten465, if its a cakewalk why have you only won 2 usf games but lost 4 games in 1's recently? Shouldn't it be 6-0

Thank you finally ...

I do agree with angrykitten, but it is not only the problem of USF overperforming

Nobody wants to hear that in this forum. They will argue that Axis still is OP and beg for more Riflebuffs...

Obvious Katitof Damage Control post in 3 ... 2 ... 1

You are right lets buff aixe early game they have already late game cos of there armore lets do there early game even better so allice wil stay at there bases and get base r@ped ...

@bicho1

If you are having problems winning the early game against kubel and volks with riflemen. You might want to post replays where you lose and let the strategists help you on what you need to do better.

That said, getting a kubel is one less capping squad for OKW. If he's going for your cutoff, and he left a volks squad to cap his own side in the first few minutes. You can outnumber the sturms and kubel combo with your own squads. As OKW start with less manpower because they have sturms from the start.

That, or watch how devm wins every game against any okw build/meta with triple rifle start in the OCF tournament; and he did it not even using rifle company.

obviously some of you eitehr cant read or just want to troll.

He wanted to discus that and asked for help and suggestions because it is no easy way to deal with the enemy as axis, thats a fact and it should not be only possible to win against good players (NOT the ones i was playing against last matches... they were stupid) if you are using exact that strat at exact this map cuz all other maps are anyways imposiible to play.

I dont have that much problems with playing but the majority of really good players agree that its absolutly inbalanced now.

So pls stay productiv and serious, we dont need more posts like:

"@AngryKitten465, if its a cakewalk why have you only won 2 usf games but lost 4 games in 1's recently? Shouldn't it be 6-0"

or

"You are right lets buff aixe early game they have already late game cos of there armore lets do there early game even better so allice wil stay at there bases and get base r@ped ..."

@AngryKitten465, if its a cakewalk why have you only won 2 usf games but lost 4 games in 1's recently? Shouldn't it be 6-0

Shhhhh, you can't compare those with the point he made. He just lost because he was matched against top tier players, when he plays Axis against USF, however, he is clearly the better player, thus the reason must be the faction itself.

There was a time OKW lover was 4 times in top 10 2v2 AT but now Lelic made me left the game behind and raging around in forums Why Lelic did this to us? The game was in a "ok" spot pre Brit release but now... now we have a pile of OP garbage

the win lose ratio's from coh2 chart.com

http://coh2chart.com/

currently the whermacht is falling a bit behind and OKW looks really bad. 1vs1 (ATM could have changed since it a updated stats)

@bicho1

If you are having problems winning the early game against kubel and volks with riflemen. You might want to post replays where you lose and let the strategists help you on what you need to do better.

That said, getting a kubel is one less capping squad for OKW. If he's going for your cutoff, and he left a volks squad to cap his own side in the first few minutes. You can outnumber the sturms and kubel combo with your own squads. As OKW start with less manpower because they have sturms from the start.
.

Thenk you ill watch devm i will try to learn from him some thing new and i will find a normal replay and post
Thank you for attention

Wrong stats.

what?

what?

I mixed up which one you were on your recent games (thought you were not winning as usf, but it was just losses vs all allied factions).

Shhhhh, you can't compare those with the point he made. He just lost because he was matched against top tier players, when he plays Axis against USF, however, he is clearly the better player, thus the reason must be the faction itself.

Yeah man, have been bug splatting endlessly since patch. But sure, it is all because of me and not because USF is dominating 1s. Sure. Oh and he just admitted that he was wrong about the stats

Now please, can you people please discuss the issues and give feedback.

So if I win a few games with ost I can make a wehr OP thread?