Counter PzIV rush with what?
Posts: 394
I have tried going support building and getting two AT Guns to back up my Conscripts until I can hold off for an SU85, but I simply cant wait that long, I lose total map control and he can just spam the hell out of PZIV's and win the game.
The only viable counter is an Zis AT Gun and that is a soft counter at best for the moment.
I can't help but think since the P4 has been buffed, it's way too good for the price and for how early it comes. It has to be a German T4 unit, not T3 that's just stupid. It's a heavy tank at the moment that counters all Soviet Units.
Who knows what to do to beat them that doesnt rely on my opponent making a mistake???
Posts: 391
Posts: 394
can you not ram it with T34 and finish it off with AT nades/ZiS?
Ramming doesn't immobilise it, it just damages gun or engine it can still reverse away and then PGrens with Shreks have a free kill. Besides, T34 get fausted the by Grens straight away anyway so they cant ram. That is not really an option.
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Posts: 14
Also if you know he likes to rush you get some mines and bait him back.
Posts: 144
hm... Can button of Guards stop them?
Posts: 391
Posts: 394
I'm not experienced enough at the game really, but if you've let the other player build up that many counters, you've already lost map control haven't you?
Build up that many counters? Grens are T1 units, PGrens are T2 units and a P4 is a T3 unit. Hardly what I would call a build up of units after losing map control? Map control is usually 50/50 when the P4 comes out anyway and as soon as it hits the field its a massive game changer.
Is anyone else having problems with the P4 or is it just me?
Posts: 394
plant mines? Mines role is always to defend and repel certain points. a well placed mine will get you the p4 down. Ofc i mean with the support of other AT units as following.
Yeah I guess mines could help, but a mine again will only damage the engine, it will still be able to reverse back, but I think that would give me the best chance to try and kill it.
Soviet mines are cheaper 30 muni, but the fucking things only take about 1/4 of health off a Half Track let alone a P4.
Posts: 194
Button + any AT.
AT nade + any AT.
Mine + any AT.
SU85 absolutely ruins T3 tanks especially combined with any of the above, SU76 is not terrible either though a bit luck dependent. Key to both is using their long range, though I suspect that's a bit obvious.
Personally I haven't had any issues with it, but maybe I haven't come up against a Pz4 pro yet.
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Posts: 78
You won't get the kill against good players, though. The important thing is to force it away quickly with minimal losses so you can take map control.
Posts: 391
Anyway. I've had problems with lack of Soviet AT myself. (c.f. another thread).
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedReally not an issue.
Posts: 14
Its machineguns are absolutely deadly, infantry does not survive near
only idea is to slow it down with AT nade (which means my T3 building will be even more late) and finish with Zis AT gun. Both will slow me down early game.
Ostwind is horribly powerful as well. Pair of them killed 3! retreating! full! squads. I started retreating before i lost any men. They followed and disintegrated me.
Posts: 391
GreenDevil, read this thread, there's some helpful stuff.
Posts: 480
PzIV shouldn't be getting out earlier than the T-34 given it's more pricey?
Posts: 78
Pz4 appears earlier than you can get t34 or su85
Its machineguns are absolutely deadly, infantry does not survive near
I don't have the exact fuel numbers with me, but I'm 95% sure that both the T-34 and SU-85 will come out for the same or less fuel than the P4. It's about 220 fuel, I think.
Ostwind is horribly powerful as well. Pair of them killed 3! retreating! full! squads. I started retreating before i lost any men. They followed and disintegrated me.
If your opponent has built two Ostwinds something has gone horribly wrong. You either have way too many infantry and/or you lost the early game pretty badly.
I suspect that a scenario where your opponent "rushes" to high tech units and is crushing you is likely due to a poor early game, in which the question should not be "what do I do about two Ostwinds" and more "what do I do about grenadiers and MG42s?"
If you can post a replay we can better assist you.
Posts: 194
Pz4 appears earlier than you can get t34 or su85
Its machineguns are absolutely deadly, infantry does not survive near
only idea is to slow it down with AT nade (which means my T3 building will be even more late) and finish with Zis AT gun. Both will slow me down early game.
Ostwind is horribly powerful as well. Pair of them killed 3! retreating! full! squads. I started retreating before i lost any men. They followed and disintegrated me.
That has much less to do with the Ostwind and more to how messed up retreat defensive bonuses are at the moment. Any AI thing can shred retreating squads right now. Grab a KV8 and watch as it destroys any squads even retreating in seconds.
Back on topic, Pz4 is 115 fuel after teching to and building T3. It's not exactly a spammable unit unless you are letting your opponent win handily. To put it in perspective, a CoH1 PANTHER was 110 fuel (though admittedly much more MP). A standard income of maybe +30 or so means at best they can make 1 Pz4 every 4 minutes or so minutes. Starve them off from fuel and you won't see more than 1.
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