Petition to give OKW a non-doctrinal MG

Simply said, OKW is the weakest faction in 1s and 2s. I say this from experience, and this is supported from stats from coh2chart.com . I think a major part of this has to do with the lack of non-doctrinal suppression platform and inability to hold early game territory, especially against USF. Volks will universally lose against rifles/infantry sections in a 1v1 scenario, and kubels/sturms can be whittled fast. Even against cons, volks will usually lose.

In every game, OKW is usually making a choice between MGs and call in infantry (which are usually a necessity considering how weak volks are and how cost-inefficient obers tend to be). This even more problematic with the OKW flaktrack bug where it automatically gets engine crit below 50% health, and the fact that due to recent patches, literally every allied faction has a very early unit that makes this unit virtually useless (AEC, All SU t3, stuart/AAHT).

Without effective suppression unit, matches against okw encourage bad/unfun tactics in the form of blobbing by allies, and makes the OKW early/mid game extremely difficult.

My suggestion: move the MG34 from doctrines to the HQ, and replace them in the doctrines with the kubel, with a buff to the kubel since it becomes a doctrinal unit.

I don't care if you support this specific proposal (I'm not sure if a kubel in doctrine is good; maybe some other ability or unit would be better); if you think OKW should have a non doctrinal MG, you should sign in support.

signed

Kubel would be dead if it was a doctrinal unit

Maybe that's not a good idea, but I'm sure there's some other unit or ability or SOMETHING that can take the mg's place in those doctrines.

Don't remove the Kübel!

Instead, replace the doctrinal MG34 with the MG42. The MG34 becomes a stock unit in T2 or T3.

Don't remove the Kübel!

Instead, replace the doctrinal MG34 with the MG42. The MG34 becomes a stock unit in T2 or T3.

So they'll have the Kubel, ISG and Mg42? Bit heavy on the suppression for a faction with forward bases and excellent AT.

shame on you relic !! fans have to beg now for balance m afraid even with the okw will still suck significantly

So they'll have the Kubel, ISG and Mg42? Bit heavy on the suppression for a faction with forward bases and excellent AT.

Right now OKW is the weak, if buffs make them too OP, nerf them. Soviets have also DSHK and you don't see them spamming it because team weapon spam is not viable. Also making commanders useful is better than nerfing commanders by moving the kübel into them.

Kubel would be dead if it was a doctrinal unit

How about making kubel doctrinal in place of the mg34 and buffing it to make it an efficient scouting / harassment vehicle? Also buff the mg34.

Disagreed no more faction mirroring

How about making kubel doctrinal in place of the mg34 and buffing it to make it an efficient scouting / harassment vehicle? Also buff the mg34.

The Kübel was once buffed.
It did not end well. the horrors...

The Kübel was once buffed.
It did not end well. the horrors...

Are you talking about the alpha they did in July? That was truly hell in a handbasket. But doctrinal is way different than what they did then. It can be a bit strong if it's doctrinal.

Disagreed no more faction mirroring

I think that factional mirroring is necessary for core mechanics, and suppression is one of those mechanics. This game relies on suppression as being a tool that players can use to force other players to use positioning, cover and flanking as tactics to win.

So they'll have the Kubel, ISG and Mg42? Bit heavy on the suppression for a faction with forward bases and excellent AT.

The kubel very very rarely scales. The ISG isn't insane anymore, although I see what you're saying. It doesn't have the AOE of an mg, so it doesn't force players to position or flank in the same way that an mg does. I'd be ok with removing suppression from the ISG if OKW got the MG.

Are you talking about the alpha they did in July? That was truly hell in a handbasket. But doctrinal is way different than what they did then. It can be a bit strong if it's doctrinal.

What they did in the alpha was moderate. I talk about the 2 Weeks of doom the game was suffering under when Peter decided the Kübel was too weak,so he over buffed it, decreasing the playerbase to nearly zero(happened about a year ago) .

The point is, the Kübel is nearly impossible to balance, yet right now it's in a spot where it's neither op nor up and it should stay like this before doing strange experiments.

alpha kubel was fun wouldn't mind having it back with a price increase to smt like 15 fuel 300 mp

I like it.

Swap Kubel and MG34, and buff Kubel.

Consider what OKW units can suppress:

-Kubel
-Flaktrack
-Luchs (if vet5)
-T3's gun
-ISG

That makes OKW not only the most non-doc units capable of suppressing but they re all spread in different tiers. And that's not counting doctrinal units: MG34, flak emplacement, bunker,

Now let's compare this with what other factions have:

USF:
-RETs (munitions ability)
-AA halftrack
-Pack howitzer

UKF:
-Vickers HMG
-UC (munitions ability)
-Bofors emplacement (specialization choice)

Soviets:
-Maxim
-M5 Halftrack (upgrade)

Ostheer:
-MG42
-Bunker (MG42 upgrade)

Of all the factions, OKW has the most suppression options, and without having to choose doctrines. There is no lack of suppression as OP claims, and that is ignoring the fact that he doesn't care if the repercussions bring about more imbalance.

^Obers can suppress as well.

Consider what OKW units can suppress:

-Kubel
-Flaktrack
-Luchs (if vet5)
-T3's gun
-ISG

That makes OKW not only the most non-doc units capable of suppressing but they re all spread in different tiers. And that's not counting doctrinal units: MG34, flak emplacement, bunker,

Of all the factions, OKW has the most suppression options, and without having to choose doctrines. There is no lack of suppression as OP claims, and that is ignoring the fact that he doesn't care if the repercussions bring about more imbalance.

Options:

1. The kubel rarely lasts past 5 minutes; mid to lategame, it gets basically 1 shotted. Even if it does, it's generally not worth the huge amount of micro it takes to keep it useful.
2. Good luck getting a vet 5 luchs or obers. That's not a reliable source of suppression, and it isn't AOE, and neither of those units are designed specifically as a suppression platform.
3. None of those of options have the combination of being mobile, scalable, and the AOE of an actual mg unit.
4. I addressed the flak track above. It just isn't a viable unit right now, and regardless, it tends to become useless in the lategame as well (although it is more scalable than a kubel).

OKW might have the most options, but none of them are as useful as a mg. There clearly is a lack of suppression, and it seems that you haven't played enough 1s to see where the problem exists.

There's also no reason to assume there's going to be huge balance problems; this argument isn't substatial. The MG34 is already in the game, and it comes with falls. At the point where the combo of falls + mgs isn't unbalanced, then there's no reason mgs would be unbalanced outside of a doctrine. If you want to make this claim, and than explain where balance issues would arise from. It's a straw man argument to claim that I don't care about balance, when the first thing I address is the fact that OKW is underperforming.