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Yay. Axis team game is hopeless now.

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3 Nov 2015, 01:44 AM
#21
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 00:37 AMRollo
Pretty fun watching you qq on the forums rather than learning to play

6 pounder is a direct clone of the pak fyi, kinda funny to see people get salty over it and call Axis AT crap in the same post.


the 6pounder is cheaper. if it's to be a direct clone then it needs to cost the same.
3 Nov 2015, 01:44 AM
#22
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

No surprises here.
OKW=Everything about the faction is shit.Needs major overhaul.

Wehr= Grens needs something mid-lategame.
Pz 4 needs penetration or cost reduction.
T4=Needs to be cheaper
Brumbarr and ostwind=Need to be useable
Panzergrenadiers =need slight buff.

Otherwise the win ratios are visible.One sided masscre if allied side know what they are doing.
Hat
3 Nov 2015, 01:53 AM
#23
avatar of Hat

Posts: 166

I played some Ost and really don't see this...
3 Nov 2015, 02:23 AM
#24
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959


Always funny to see when your P4 loses a 1vs1 vs a M10 that costs 80 fuel.


who made this guy strategist?!! l2p


It's always funny too to see when your IS2 loses to a jp4 that cost 135 fuel! kappa :D
3 Nov 2015, 02:27 AM
#25
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

Totally agreed! I actually thought about making a thread about that too. From a 2vs2 perspective Germans are not playable any longer. The player search rate has gone up to a solid 75% Allies. Pretty good indicator for what is going on right now..



This is completely impossible. We were all quite assured that several patches ago the reason the search rate was 90-10 was not because there was an imbalance and people wanted to win but simply because axis are cool!

If you are right.... people want to win and played axis because they were OP. But....
3 Nov 2015, 02:30 AM
#26
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 01:53 AMHat
I played some Ost and really don't see this...


Protip: Next time claiming this with your player card hidden, then we may believe you for 10 more seconds. :)
3 Nov 2015, 02:32 AM
#27
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362

The biggest issue is that Allies have all the initiative until you get T3 out, at which point you're on approximately equal footing. Except that you're behind in resources and VPs.
3 Nov 2015, 02:34 AM
#28
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 02:27 AMAvNY



This is completely impossible. We were all quite assured that several patches ago the reason the search rate was 90-10 was not because there was an imbalance and people wanted to win but simply because axis are cool!

If you are right.... people want to win and played axis because they were OP. But....
3 Nov 2015, 02:39 AM
#29
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954



Lostheer unable to win team games because grens scale worse than allie infantry, while bleeding more (30 mp reinforce vs 28). Received accuracy vet of allies makes lmg42 rather week and unless you have a good sniper micro you can forget about winning infantry engagements.
P4 overpriced at 125 fuel, while being worse than cromwells and shermans that cost less. Always funny to see when your P4 loses a 1vs1 vs a M10 that costs 80 fuel.
T4 too expensive to build and the Brummbär is just too expensive to be useful.

There are people that still think ostheer would be op if they could built gren cover :clap:

Right now you only win as Ostheer when your opponents makes too many mistakes, in a equal game double ost vs allie combinations I don't see much chances and obviously other top 150 players also don't know what to do.


Here is a great thread from the past:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/36266/balance-data-since-the-patch/page/13

So when the axis were on top, the win/loss stats were meaningless and the problem was either the data set, arranged teams vs random, or some other argument that really meant that people who play allies were deficient. Now that the win ratios are close, the game is broken and these stats are really, really important, especially if an Allied win ratio is marginally larger than an Axis one.

Most of you who are crying now thought the game was great when there was a 30% spread in 4v4 win rates.
3 Nov 2015, 02:43 AM
#30
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 02:39 AMGrumpy


Here is a great thread from the past:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/36266/balance-data-since-the-patch/page/13

So when the axis were on top, the win/loss stats were meaningless and the problem was either the data set, arranged teams vs random, or some other argument that really meant that people who play allies were deficient. Now that the win ratios are close, the game is broken and these stats are really, really important, especially if an Allied win ratio is marginally larger than an Axis one.

Most of you who are crying now thought the game was great when there was a 30% spread in 4v4 win rates.


No one give/gave a fuck in 4v4 balance.
3 Nov 2015, 02:45 AM
#31
avatar of leungkevin24

Posts: 61

Ostheer needs more reliable non doctrinal close quarters infantry. Panzer grenadiers should be made more useful/less fragile. Or cost reduction.
3 Nov 2015, 02:49 AM
#32
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 02:39 AMGrumpy


4vs4 balance


:lolol:


Nobody ever cared for that for reasons I mentioned countless times. 3vs3+ are won by the fraction with the bigger playerbase because better elo.


3 Nov 2015, 02:56 AM
#33
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

3 Nov 2015, 03:02 AM
#34
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3



who made this guy strategist?!! l2p


It's always funny too to see when your IS2 loses to a jp4 that cost 135 fuel! kappa :D


You must be pretty bad if you lose your is2 in a 1vs1 against a jp4 :D not that this situation happens often since both units can't be spammed a nearly always fight against each other in combined arms engagements.
3 Nov 2015, 03:05 AM
#35
avatar of MoreLess3rd

Posts: 363

3v3 n 4v4?..isn't that the game mode where which blob the hardest win? (dont really matter if Tank, Support weapon or Infantry)
3 Nov 2015, 03:06 AM
#36
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500



You see the problem is, there never was any axis dominance. You know when WFA was released and OKW was broken and OP as shit? You know who had the highest winrate? Soviets. And then when there was a Tiger Ace dominating the matches, you know who had the highest winrates? Soviets again. And then when there was CAS and OKW was enjoying 100% ammo income, you know who had the highest winrate? USF.



Also lol about you calling a 30-40% winrate difference a 'marginally larger' advantage.


The thing I feel in this forum is a big 'Nazi boogeyman' syndrome. Most evidence is ignored and most things are unbalanced because they are simply axis. When WFA was released, the stock Kubel, with no surpressing function and next to no damage output was considered op. Why? Well nobody knows.
Just as an example: the few smoke abilities Axis had was considered op and a out of jail free card, yet the numerous smoke functions on allied infantry as well as tanks is considered vital and ok. Obers at release were considered overpowered, yet we have units that have close to twice their dps as well as more models.


There is a huge disparity in cost-effectiveness ratio, and it's not to the axis favour. A 440 mp 'elite' unit that loses to a 280mp baseline infantry unit can hardly be considered elite, no? Shrecks have been nerfed because blobbing. For other factions like USF and UKF blobbing is not considered bad. And here's where the great difference is: Allied factions can easily deal with an axis blob, yet the other way around it's not so easy. Sure, everyone will say Stuka or MG, yet those are either very unavailable, or don't do a well enough job. There simply isn't a lot of playroom given to axis units and abilities by the community.


The overall situation is very concerning, especially if you compare it to games like Starcraft.
3 Nov 2015, 03:10 AM
#37
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 03:06 AMDomine
Obers at release were considered overpowered, yet we have units that have close to twice their dps as well as more models.

Not at max range we don't.
3 Nov 2015, 03:14 AM
#38
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

As Wehrmacht / Ostheer i have to say that Grenadiers need an adjustment to be at least comparable in late game, when allied infantry is all vet 3.

Pgrenz need a buff for sure, i haven't used them in years. Maybe just one man more on the squad and reinforcement cost reduced.

For t4 i have to say it is not worth it in most cases. The Panzerwerfer made it's comeback now though.

P4's really struggle these days when it is a engagement vs cromwell


For OKW i have to say that volksgrens are almost useless as a real fighting force. My Solution is to go 2 sturms. But then you have to engage extremly well.

The MG34 is pretty much a joke.

You kinda have to choose a doctrine now really early has OKW, for JLI, Fusiliers, Falls. JLI are way superior to the other 2 call in infantrys, fusiliers get powerful with g43..but 90 ammo is 90 ammo.

But still.. you can pull it off.

For Ostheer a sniper should be taken vs UKF and USF. If you don't, it feels like have fun with getting mp bleed to death.

For OKW i see only JLI most of the time, since they are the only infantry which can atleast keep up in damage, while Falls and JLI are still really fragile, and falls will start to become useful at vet 2.

Also People not use Kubel, because they have the attitude "it will die anyways" - but for 4-6 minutes you can just surpress everything if you do right, a mobile maxim, what you want more?


Axis got definatly harder to play, since you have to be the aggresive one now and not the lame ass campy motherfucker like how axis have been played most of the time before.

If Axis would be a little adjusted, i think the game would be pretty much in a state where you have the best balance possible.

I'd like to say that going Mechanized would be a good Idea as OKW, but the lack of heal mimght screw you up pretty bad in early game, maybe there should be an opportunity to get a bit heal out of a squad.

But still, in my opinion it's pretty much fine, really small things that have to be worked on
3 Nov 2015, 03:14 AM
#39
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 03:10 AMVuther

Not at max range we don't.


Does it matter?
3 Nov 2015, 03:19 AM
#40
avatar of MoreLess3rd

Posts: 363

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 03:06 AMDomine


Most evidence is ignored and most things are unbalanced because they are simply axis.
Just as an example: the few smoke abilities Axis had was considered op and a out of jail free card, yet the numerous smoke functions on allied infantry as well as tanks is considered vital and ok.


i wish Axis had non Doc smoke to flank.
especially on OKW, hard to counter Vicker (Mg42 arc)

440 mp 'elite' unit that loses to a 280mp baseline infantry unit can hardly be considered elite, no?


+1
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