Yay. Axis team game is hopeless now.

Does it matter?

Actually, yeah it does.

Does it matter?

To the actual discussion? Not really, as was Domine's point with false pretensions.

Even with broken isgs axis pretty hopeless when it comes to late game, at least on some maps.

Actually, yeah it does.

See? This is exactly what I mean. Obers in their op form resulted in a nowhere near as unbalanced state as there is now. Somebody will simply take an attribute, just any really to justify the disparity. Nobody will mention that Obers were in a tier that costs 80*1,5 fuel( or an adjusted *1,44 fuel if you factor in base income ), and there never were more than two on the field. They also could not be called in anywhere on the field, cost 50mp more than commandoes and do not have a cloak ability or really any other utility than their damage output.


Just as another parallel: There is a popular game called World of tanks. Some developers of said game have openly announced that they will purposely nerf German units as they feel an aversion to Nazis et cetera. The disparity between Soviet Union and Germany in this game is 1,6% iirc.

To the actual discussion? Not really, as was Domine's point with false pretensions.

Oh sure, point some out, it should be easy enough.

Actually, yeah it does.

No it doesn't, as least back in those days when you knew you got caught by Obers, you can retreat, now Commandos wears OctoCamo and you lose squad in 2 seconds.

Just as another parallel: There is a popular game called World of tanks. Some developers of said game have openly announced that they will purposely nerf German units as they feel an aversion to Nazis et cetera. The disparity between Soviet Union and Germany in this game is 1,6% iirc.

They bashed Germany, Japanese tanks and warships and expressed Sovjet war machine godlike (and lots of them even didn't really built), of course you know why. It's a Russian studio. For Mother Russia.

And they even disallowed Japanese Rising Sun flag those ARE CURRENTLY USING in the Self-defence Force. I wondered why they didn't ban the Iron Cross.

No it doesn't, as least back in those days when you knew you got caught by Obers, you can retreat, now Commandos wears OctoCamo and you lose squad in 2 seconds.

Ignoring camo, being "caught" by obers means being anywhere within a 40 yard radius of them, while being "caught" by commando / thompson paras/rangers / shock troops is a 2-3 yard radius. While ignoring your gross exaggeration that commandos can wipe in 2 secs nowadays, how do you explain the discrepancy between an 80 yd field of death vs. a 4 yard field of death?

FYI, I agree Axis is in a bad place, but I can't not comment on absurd statements Kappa

As Wehrmacht / Ostheer i have to say that Grenadiers need an adjustment to be at least comparable in late game, when allied infantry is all vet 3.

superior to the other 2 call in infantrys, fusiliers get powerful with g43..but 90 ammo is 90 ammo.

90 ammo for g43 is more precious than shrek..as shrek u'll get kite by tank n clump up to get insta squad wipe..leave that role to Puma n reken, use muni for other, a good arty, mine's n Obersoldaten upgrade

Ignoring camo, being "caught" by obers means being anywhere within a 40 yard radius of them, while being "caught" by commando / thompson paras/rangers / shock troops is a 2-3 yard radius. While ignoring your gross exaggeration that commandos can wipe in 2 secs nowadays, how do you explain the discrepancy between an 80 yd field of death vs. a 4 yard field of death?

FYI, I agree Axis is in a bad place, but I can't not comment on absurd statements :Kappa:

Exaggeration? Sorry, I played Brit 95% since it launched, it happened in almost, every single of my games.

You must be pretty bad if you lose your is2 in a 1vs1 against a jp4 not that this situation happens often since both units can't be spammed a nearly always fight against each other in combined arms engagements.

Oh I'm glad you got my point, yes I totally agree with you!!! I must be very bad if I lose my is2 in a 1v1 against a jp4!!

so back to your post, you must be pretty bad if you lose your p4 in a 1v1 against a m10

(2vs2 current meta vent)

Soviet:
Conscripts opening, spam sandbags for IS, get shocks / guards,
some 120mm / Katyusha / ML20 into the mix for non stop barrage
then SU76 for cheap reliable AT

USA:
Spam Rifle blob with BAR or Flamer
Get some RE with double bazookas
mix some Pack Howitzer / optionally Priest
Spam M10 for cheap AT, or wait for Pershing

Jack of all trade Brits:
Build 3 IS + Snipers + Spam 6 Pounder
Spam Comet + Commandos for firepower
Spam Churchills with Anvil engineers for undead heavy tanks.

As axis, see how your MG gets pinned out of nowhere by pack howitzer,
your gren/PG/volks get melted by rifle blob
your elite infantry get sniped by half-squad in one volley.
while indirect fire rains dead from above on your paks and trucks and fortified positions.
And just when you get your precise tank out, can't get past 6 pounders wall.
get a heavy out? prepare to get sunk by M10 hordes, comets. + almighty Skillplanes!

How fun is that?!

So basically what Allies had to deal with for months?

Axis infantry -

Grenadiers - Bad without LMG,faust less useful now,rifle grenade largely useless now against any proper player,30 reinforce cost,4 man easywipe squads.Bad veterancy,can't fire on move.
Once allied infantry gets vet, lmg grens won't do enough dmg either.Lategame dies like flies to allied infantry.

Panzergrenadiers - 4 man squads easywipe,high cost,loses 1/4 dps each man killed.Without vet 2 is largely bad .Can't stop lategame allied infantry even with vet.Bundle nade is a big joke.

Volksgrenadiers - The biggest joke of the lot.Only has a grenade,nothing else.Bad veterancy.Poor at everything -just cannon fodder overall.Totally useless.

Obersoldaten - 4 man squads.Recieved accuracy nerfed first,then dmg nerfed,lmg cost added.Hugely expensive,cost ineffective ,brutal reinforce cost and time.And still can't beat allied lategame infantry with LMGs cost effectively.

Fallschirmjager - Huge entry cost.That maybe justified due to style of entry.What is the justification of enormous reinforce cost thereafter -entry is onetime thing..cost too should be onetime thing..not penalize u allgame.Fragile as hell .No better than panzergrenadiers.

Only cost effective infantry to some extent are pzfusiliers.


Against brutal rifles,rifle flamers,paras,rangers,IS,commandoes,shocks etc etc.

Total mismatch and slaughter.

So basically what Allies had to deal with for months?

Axis never had any of this.

Remove flamethrowers from rifles and give to squishy rear echelons. Problem Solved.

And they even disallowed Japanese Rising Sun flag those ARE CURRENTLY USING in the Self-defence Force. I wondered why they didn't ban the Iron Cross.

Simple - because they want to make money in China

Exaggeration? Sorry, I played Brit 95% since it launched, it happened in almost, every single of my games.

Well, they cut down DPS for more than half.

PD: Obers had a bonus against retreating units on launch, so yeah sometimes it didn't matter if you retreat.

Company of Allies, nuff said.

Well, they cut down DPS for more than half.

PD: Obers had a bonus against retreating units on launch, so yeah sometimes it didn't matter if you retreat.

Camo-first-strike bonus making this so-called nerf, being non-existent.

Show Spoiler

You see the problem is, there never was any axis dominance. You know when WFA was released and OKW was broken and OP as shit? You know who had the highest winrate? Soviets. And then when there was a Tiger Ace dominating the matches, you know who had the highest winrates? Soviets again. And then when there was CAS and OKW was enjoying 100% ammo income, you know who had the highest winrate? USF.



Also lol about you calling a 30-40% winrate difference a 'marginally larger' advantage.


The thing I feel in this forum is a big 'Nazi boogeyman' syndrome. Most evidence is ignored and most things are unbalanced because they are simply axis. When WFA was released, the stock Kubel, with no surpressing function and next to no damage output was considered op. Why? Well nobody knows.
Just as an example: the few smoke abilities Axis had was considered op and a out of jail free card, yet the numerous smoke functions on allied infantry as well as tanks is considered vital and ok. Obers at release were considered overpowered, yet we have units that have close to twice their dps as well as more models.


There is a huge disparity in cost-effectiveness ratio, and it's not to the axis favour. A 440 mp 'elite' unit that loses to a 280mp baseline infantry unit can hardly be considered elite, no? Shrecks have been nerfed because blobbing. For other factions like USF and UKF blobbing is not considered bad. And here's where the great difference is: Allied factions can easily deal with an axis blob, yet the other way around it's not so easy. Sure, everyone will say Stuka or MG, yet those are either very unavailable, or don't do a well enough job. There simply isn't a lot of playroom given to axis units and abilities by the community.


The overall situation is very concerning, especially if you compare it to games like Starcraft.

Agree to everything you say.

To add to it, the justification for cost, which was "veterancy 5" is not achievable in "reasonable" time-frame. I mean, have you ever seen a Vet 5 kubelwagon?

Agree to everything you say.

To add to it, the justification for cost, which was "veterancy 5" is not achievable in "reasonable" time-frame. I mean, have you ever seen a Vet 5 kubelwagon?

Once Requires damn good map sense and mirco for it (and your opponent to be incapable of attacking it)

Without a -33% VET req across the board VET 5 feature is currently worthless.