Remove ML-20 from the game

It's a worthless unit and I don't think there should be wortless units in this game. You can only build it if the enemy doesn't have any off-map bombing and then on big maps it's hard enough to keep it from getting raided anyway. Even if it is built (and it takes a long time and cost 600mp) you won't hit much with it anyway. I know this, but I try it anyway for some reason. The other day I warned allies about a barrage but they just ignored it and rolled straight through the impact area and the tragic comedy was that nobody even got a scratch because the AOE is so small and the spread is huge so it didn't hit anything. It would take something like three ML-20 barraging the same area for it to be a dangerous zone.

So denial of area doesnt work, and you can't hurt busses much either because even if you do hit, the damage against those are even lower.

Meanwhile the leIG kills brit mortar pits no sweat and still suppresses infantry, and I hear the sexton is equally worthless and the Brit arty commander as a whole.

I mean just listen to this: lift rounds to from 4 to 8 (or 10 or what it was), damage to 300 and good aoe and then gut it by down to 160 and sucky aoe. Just listen to that change and that's pretty indicative how Little one must understand about how to balance things. First it was truly worthless, then too strong and now almost as worthless again. 200 is still low and means nothing when there are few hits.

It's as if there is no piece of memory from longer back than one patch ago. As if a person with no understanding just changed stuff around to see how things became different. And then just left, not interested anymore in checking the outcome.

It's simply mindboggling. How long did it take for it to become useful? And how fast was it again rendered useless? Some people get frustrated waiting for changes. I'll tell you what invokes feelings of giving up all hope: waiting for change, getting a change, and then fucking back again.

The ml-20 was a beast and the commanders included it were all meta like 3-4 patches ago. It shouldnt overperform or underperform. let me tell what i think, one stuka dive bomb shouldn't wreck it right away and it should leave a sliver bit of hp but if you want to reoccupy it you have to sacrifice one of your full 6 manned squads. Or maybe give it a %30 wreck chance to discourage ml20 spamming, I don't really know. Shitty situation.

It's not bad but it should be better than LeFH.
Currently it's not.

All these 'Remove x from the game' threads

how many commanders are there which can oneshoot a arty? i like the princip of having a counter commander to arty (because arty is aids)but i dont know how many counters the ally side have, never saw a lefh18 build.

+1 remove the shit

+1 remove the shit

I actually want it to be useful . I'm upset that's why.

Remove PAK43, it completely useless if the enemy has offmap arty or anything which is a bit hotter than bath water. The most common soviet commander has instant hard counter. And it is faster decrewed than a motorcycle oil-covered road. Mhhhh, or maybe just let it in the game, deal with it and stop whining? Your choice.

stop whining

I'll teach you some insight that will help you in life. "Whining" is a word that reveals a lot more about the person using it than it ever will about the people it's aimed at. It is the same principle as judging a person by the way he/she describes others. Since it is insulting and dismissive at the same time, regardless of the facts of the matter, the speaker will be identified as an obnoxious. If the complaints lack validity, it's "only" rude. But if the complaints have merit it looks even worse. Now you are not only arrogant and rude but also pretty ignorant/stupid.

Both options outcomes are bad because people may not tell you off, but they sure take notice of who you are and how you act, and that will affect you throughout your life.

I know I had a lot of help from people that I couldn't see coming just because they thought I was a good guy. And I know how little I am inclined to do something for the small (obnoxious) people.

I'll teach you some insight that will help you in life. "Whining" is a word that reveals a lot more about the person using it than it ever will about the people it's aimed at. It is the same principle as judging a person by the way he/she describes others. Since it is insulting and dismissive at the same time, regardless of the facts of the matter, the speaker will be identified as an obnoxious. If the complaints lack validity, it's "only" rude. But if the complaints have merit it looks even worse. Now you are not only arrogant and rude but also pretty ignorant/stupid.

Both options outcomes are bad because people may not tell you off, but they sure take notice of who you are and how you act, and that will affect you throughout your life.

I know I had a lot of help from people that I couldn't see coming just because they thought I was a good guy. And I know how little I am inclined to do something for the small (obnoxious) people.

pretty butthurt tbh. what about his argument about pak43?

They need to properly balance howitzers and counters. Currently they're a neutered version of a broken implementation.

Scale the damn range by map size. Make the range somewhere around 50% of map length. Revert the howitzer damage back to what it was a couple of patches ago, make the "distant thunder" noise louder.

Make them buildable in base, remove the ability of off-map to hit base sectors.

Result would be a powerful unit capable of wrecking *static* play *in range.* this range would have been reduced to a sensible amount that it forces player choice: Do I build a safe howitzer in base capable only of hitting my side of the map? Or do I build a howitzer out of my safe zone for a greater risk but greater reward?

Opponent can then counter play as the more aggressive the howitzer the more vulnerable to a raid. A howitzer able to hit the enemy base would need to be built in a practically suicidal position.

2 click counters wouldn't work in base removing the current broken ultra counter state, but again, the howitzer would be limited to the areas it could reach from base.

Currently howitzers are a waste of 600mp, and a waste of a doctrine slot. They do too little damage and are either uncounterable or completely negated depending on doctrinal picks. In a 2 player matchup with a howitzer involved one player will always lose out to something they have no counter for. Either they get bombed out from afar if they have no call in, or the howitzer gets deleted every time it's built by an unstoppable off-map. Nobody wins.

Relic make stuka dive bomb not insta rape howi pls Kappa

All these 'Remove x from the game' threads

+1

Dat rant though.

how many commanders are there which can oneshoot a arty?

Doesn't matter if they are hardcore meta since they were introduced.

Counter arty options could be left as they are, but they shouldn't be in such powerful meta doctrines as they are now-it should be hipster style doctrines, just like the doctrines with arty.

Dive bombs for everyone.

All these 'Remove x from the game' threads

Yeah I hate these, it's a special kind of butthurt to want something removed because it can't win the game for you.

Yeah I hate these, it's a special kind of butthurt to want something removed because it can't win the game for you.

well said

I think it should have a brace function just like the British personally. That way you have a chance to save the weapon from a CAS player. Let it kill the crew, but for god sakes whats the point of a ML-20 when CAS is a instant counter?

Or eh just get rid of CAS and make the entire community happy.

I think it should have a brace function just like the British personally. That way you have a chance to save the weapon from a CAS player. Let it kill the crew, but for god sakes whats the point of a ML-20 when CAS is a instant counter?

Or eh just get rid of CAS and make the entire community happy.

CAS isn't the only doctrine with the 50kg or an off map that can kill an howitzer in 1 go, it's not even an allies issue only, you never see a pak43 or leih because of the insane amount of off map arty allies have to destroy them in 1 go.

I think a brace functionality would work, but also make it so you can't build them inside the base sector or near the base bunkers so that they can be effectively rushed by tanks as a counterplay.

CAS isn't the only doctrine with the 50kg or an off map that can kill an howitzer in 1 go, it's not even an allies issue only, you never see a pak43 or leih because of the insane amount of off map arty allies have to destroy them in 1 go.

I think a brace functionality would work, but also make it so you can't build them inside the base sector or near the base bunkers so that they can be effectively rushed by tanks as a counterplay.

I do believe it's the only one with a 50kg that has a recon run and the endless munitions though to use it. Even if you rebuild the ML-20, it will instantly die again from CAS. Anyone else with a 50kg has to really think about wasting that munitions. Also the devs already patched it so you can't build the ML-20 in your base.

The Pak43 is really survivable (the gun itself). Last night I dropped a direct AT air run on it from the Russian Anti Tank Hunter tactics commander and it barely scratched it. Killing a crew for the pak43 doesn't matter much when you have volks being the cheapest rifleman squad in the game...you need a way to kill the guns.

But yeh there are counters, I hear what you're saying...but nothing compared to CAS.

I am also talking team games. I really don't think CAS is a good 1 vs 1 commander for example by any means because you don't have a teammate to carry you without armor.