OKW Infantry versus American Infantry(Rifles)

Can't understand why okw need any kind of buffs.

the only thing i don't like about obers is how long they take to reinforce.

you actually cant be serious right now. pre-nerf obers were just absolutely disgusting, being able to directly attack machine guns and win.

They can still do that. If they (unvetted even) get the first shot they can pretty much pick any Hmg squad off one by one by one as the take turns grabbing the gun.

SU will never get overwhelmed that easy by the OKW since they can get their tech and tanks up more quickly in most occasions. Due to the fact rhat OKW needs to make a spearhead

Raketan and heat seeking shreks completely nullify SU light vehicles. Now they should to some extent but SU has no way to counter the high quality infantry of OKW.

Raketan and heat seeking shreks completely nullify SU light vehicles. Now they should to some extent but SU has no way to counter the high quality infantry of OKW.

eh, maxims will work as long as they get the first shot off and aren't hit by indirect. shocks will also work as will most of the medium/heavy tank options (although you'll probably have to push schreck volks with med tanks).

I have the impression people are looking for a unit or improvement that would win for them the game.

Volk aren't mean to be strong ai, they are mean to be cheap meat shield. And you use them to cover your elite infantry. early Sturm, mid whatever doctrinal, late obers. Now many people simply forget to put that elite unit behind them, they just spam volks until rifles/IS are well fed and vet3 and your folks just trash.
Lets also not forget that in addition you have very strong anti infantry vehicles to help you.

The other fact onw players forget is the trucks. They are the only faction that can deploy their truck wherever they want. So of course they must do it and its a double edge sword. But which other faction can secure 1/3 of the map with an early panzer hq? So in my opinion the ammo/fuel starvation is a false excuse, okw can secure and at the same time harass fuel/ammo much more easier than anyone else. If ammo is now so important, maybe just deploy your hq next to a munition point and not only and always fuel/victory.

I have the impression people are looking for a unit or improvement that would win for them the game.

Volk aren't mean to be strong ai, they are mean to be cheap meat shield. And you use them to cover your elite infantry. early Sturm, mid whatever doctrinal, late obers. Now many people simply forget to put that elite unit behind them, they just spam volks until rifles/IS are well fed and vet3 and your folks just trash.
Lets also not forget that in addition you have very strong anti infantry vehicles to help you.

Unfortunately, Volks are bad at everything, including being meatshields. Even at vet5 they are about as durable as a 5 man vet 0 infantry section. Your logic is valid, but I have an impression that OKW was not designed this way by Relic.

I'd really just swap Obers and Stuka zu Fuss in their respective tiers. That way they come earlier and are more available overall, resulting in less Volks spam and Mech HQ being more viable. Also, tweak volks vet so they have better RA.

you actually cant be serious right now. pre-nerf obers were just absolutely disgusting, being able to directly attack machine guns and win. vetted up obers are the best long range unit in the game, and vet 4 will hands down beat any infantry unit thanks to their suppression. as with any 4 man unit, keep in mind explosive threats, keep your models spread out, retreat if their health gets low so you dont get gibbed my a random mortar or something.

also dont people always talk about the infamous okw manpower float? if you actually micro obers well they bleed relatively little compared to how much damage they dish out thanks to the fact theyre long ranged infantry

You know that there were several ober nerfs right..?? the one every on talk about was when before all lmg got adjusted and then after that they were fine but they still got another dmg nerf wich made them useless

IMO the specialsit unit are countered by even soft counters which is pathetic and also they need to scale the okw vet better also
obers:
reduce the vet requirement by 30 %
lmg dmg back to 8 from 6
stg cost increase from 60 to 90
stg dmg from 6 to 9 (makes doctrine viable again)
vet 5 - -30%weapon cooldown added

falls:
keep the fg42 a seperate upgrade for free(like royal engies to heavy engies)
so they dont kill support weapons and other fragiel unit fast when
deployed from house.
-20 or 15 % base received accuracy for falls
vet 5 bonus changed from -30 to -50% cooldown
veterancy requirements reduced by 30%

jaeger light infantry:
additional sniper for 50 muni
cost decreased form 300 to 280
vet 5 -additional dps increase
veterancy requirements reduced by 30%

fussies:
g43 dps increase(global for whermact as well)
veterancy requirements reduced by 30%

sturm:
give them thier launach dps back(the complain was about the mbeing strong against rifles and the kubel combo which are no longer a issue clearly)
veterancy requirements reduced by 40%
volks:
-10% based recieved accruacy added
veterancy requirements reduced by 20%

mg34;
suppression and dps buff
veterancy requirements reduced by 30%

Volks need tiered upgrades like in VCOH(panzer elite),

first tier unlocks squad leader who has mp44/upgrades volks to 2 mp40
(if upgraded with this package, gets faust same as grenadier.)
(extra purchace specific to each squad, locks out/locked out by schreck)
(squad leader for volks only-stays 5 man squad)

second tier unlocks schreck/faster vet upgrade for all OKW units.

third tier unlocks group zeal (same as VCOH)
(helps us blob better since thats what lelic wants)

Up volks cost by 15-40mp.
Up obersoldaten by 100 mp, increase effectiveness to compensate.
(helps reduce massive manpower float that OKW cannot possible spend or bleed.)

After some games today I feel this is an issue as well, I think to remedy this it will need to be a combination of making sturms/obers more viable through stat adjustments and veterency rescaling on top of some small allied vet nerf. All of these will be done in small amounts to not make the usual snowball effect of triple nerfs, wont overwhelm the SU and will help the Ostheer with the lategame infantry fights. The constant buffing of volks will just lead to more volks spam if the alternative is still less attractive and everyone seems to be against volks spam despite wanting them to be better.

The main question is still this- what are the 'extremely powerful units' and vet 5 good for right now in OKW gameplay that justifies the crippling resource penalties.
All the powerful units are nerfed,vet 5 is an excuse rather than an actual regular feature in competitive games.

33% fuel and 20% munitions is a huge penalty,rewards should be commensurate with risk.Right now it isn't.Its a very weak faction.

The Luchs is in a horrible place tech wise. They ought to move it to Battlegroup HQ or Mechanized HQ. It costs 195 fu (adjusted) to rush out a Luchs. For comparison: JPIV costs 202 fu (adjusted)

a non doctrinal MG would be the first step, into the right direction imo

The main question is still this- what are the 'extremely powerful units' and vet 5 good for right now in OKW gameplay that justifies the crippling resource penalties.
All the powerful units are nerfed,vet 5 is an excuse rather than an actual regular feature in competitive games.

33% fuel and 20% munitions is a huge penalty,rewards should be commensurate with risk.Right now it isn't.Its a very weak faction.

This is one of the big things, SO many units vet stupid slow and never even make Vet 3. Reduce OKW units to Vet 3 and spread the bonuses between that Vet system.

Thing is, vet 4 obers and falls overperform for their cost. Problem is, getting them there while being cost efficient about it

Thing is, vet 4 obers and falls overperform for their cost. Problem is, getting them there while being cost efficient about it

I got vet 5 ober the other day, they were ok, but it took me 20 mins after the wins screen of farming rear echelon to do it.
But i got to run fast, so that was cool.
The suppression they get at vet 4, also is only yellow suppression, and takes very long to actually suppress anything, and cannot actually pin it.

a non doctrinal MG would be the first step, into the right direction imo

Would literally be the best change ever. Kubel has such a stupid design. Its op for the first 3 mins, but then its useless.

It also stops your sturms from getting vet because they are backing up and repairing it so much. Getting vet on sturms early is pretty crucial.

Lack of MGs make it really difficult to deal with US in the early game too, because they can outfight your infantry, if they get rifles in a good building, there is nothing you can do. Also, if US get a good start and vet begins to stack up (really easy to do with elite rifles) then it becomes extremely difficult to make a comeback. Of course this can be alleviated with an mg34 doctrine, but it comes at 1 cp, which isn't great and it performs really bad too. Also, it boxes you into one of two doctrines, and outside mg34 and falls, Luftwaffe is just terrible. Fort is ok I guess.

Something which actually helps here too is the officer with an early field HQ. But, again, he comes out at 1cp, which is too late sometimes. I think it would be a good change if you made him like elite rifles, having a cool down at the start, but still coming out at 0 cp.

Volks are not meatshield, they are the backbone.

Although, whatever they are backbone for, currently has a bad back.

What if you want to use one of the 3/7 docs that doesnt have doctrinal infantry?

or all of them? but f**k OKW right?

Thing is, vet 4 obers and falls overperform for their cost. Problem is, getting them there while being cost efficient about it

They should overperform for their cost by a margin,otherwise the massive resource penalty is meaningless.

They should overperform for their cost by a margin,otherwise the massive resource penalty is meaningless.

Thats not called overperforming, thats called performing to expectations.