OKW Infantry versus American Infantry(Rifles)

I accept that Luchs is good at flank protection, but with okws fuel scarcity and the fact that you will always be on the back foot as them unless you get lucky spamming JLI, Fusiliers, and Leigs, it's not worth the resources for that unit.

Similarly, for a frail defensive tool the Flaktrack is not worth 55 fuel. (45? Been a while, staying away from OKW for time being)

IMO flak track should be way cheaper, like 30 fuel but with a performance nerf as well. Luchs I guess is fine, just a weird unit.

It's all about how you use them.

There's a reason Luchs gets cloaking ability with vet.

Disregard luchs, performance is fine. Timing of the unit is strange if you don't go fast T3, that's all I meant.

I haven't seen solid Flaktrack build orders in forever-it's all BHQ into leig/JP4, or mech with call in troop spam with puma, or BHQ+mech. If you could post recent replays of good Flaktrack use that would be great-I never see the unit anymore.

just ler sturms have thier previous stg damage and obers their (post lmg nerf damage ) back and also heavy buff to falls and suppresion buff to mg34...and maybe g43 dmg buff for fussies

requires 20 fuel/200mp upgrade plus double truck setup for fuel starved faction? Lol you' re pushing it even for a strategist, that is an insane requirement. Other factions get their infantry upgrades after one tech up or upgrade. A bit received acc on vet 5? Better get rid of the vet 5 and give them 3 vet levels while lelic is at it.

Usually you have your first truck out at minute 2-3, second at 8-9.
20 Fuel is about 1 minute of fuel income. The point of delaying it is to give soviets a breathing chance in early game. This changes will improve volks late game against vetted allies infantry, there's no need to overbuff them for early game. The Kar98 damage increase is enough for that.

so you get a dedicated tankhunter squad that you still have to upgrade with shrecks afterwards? Where is the logic in that?

The tankhunter squad could've two AT rifles together which are replaced by schrecks, the point hereby is that upgrades should be tactical decisions for every faction. Not no-brainer choices.

I don't see how this is a fix, this is a straight up harsh nerf. OKW is the weakest faction as of now. These changes will hammer it into the ground. Without the shreck units being available early in the game, the faction dies.

I personally don't upgrade schrecks anymore, simply because good players know how to deal with them. You get pushed, kited & bleed to death. Raketenwerfer + mines are more effective.

What OKW needs is the absurd vet 5 removed and altered to a 3 vet system. Sturms should get the shrecks upgrade, that can't be toggled. Volks should get mp44, but only 3 and the mg34 needs to be in the HQ, but only available after a truck is setup. And raketten needs to provide green cover for the crew....

It's enough to lower the vet requirements. So that okw units actually reach vet 5 in reasonable time.

So SU is going to be overwhelmed by an OKW with more men, excellent AT and better AI infantry.

1. We are talking about Amis and Brits here
2. SU is fine, Cons have great RE with vet 3 and that's why I said they should not nerf Cons' RE in another post since they don't have access to LMGS and what not. SU is a powerful faction, a bit boring but powerful.

Disregard luchs, performance is fine. Timing of the unit is strange if you don't go fast T3, that's all I meant.

I haven't seen solid Flaktrack build orders in forever-it's all BHQ into leig/JP4, or mech with call in troop spam with puma, or BHQ+mech. If you could post recent replays of good Flaktrack use that would be great-I never see the unit anymore.

It's a little odd, but it's meant to fill in the arsenal gaps if you go BHQ into panzer command without stopping to get a jagdpanzer early or mechanized, you can get it around the same time as T70. Even if you get it late though it can still be effective it's just a matter of being cautious with it. It synergizes really well with Elite Armoured commander because you can use vehicle detection to strike where he isn't able to do much about it. (Or just flashlight HT to keep an eye on any vehicles he may have.) I'd even say elite armoured is woefully underrated. (But elite infantry are all the rage, so scavenge and luftwaffe are going to be the most popular)


I do a lot of mechanized builds, but with the new patch I don't have a ton of replays. With the Captain --> Pak howie/stuart meta it's risky but it all comes down to execution. Not so good on maps like La Gleize or Arnhem, but still doable. I especially like it against Brits since it can bait AEC and no one builds PIATS which hard counter it ruthlessly except in the most defensive usage. Only thing you gotta worry about is the .55 Sniper.

As a fan of historical accuracy, I always supported giving them MP 40's and Panzerfaust (no crits) as an upgrade. It really annoys me that Relic decided to name them Volksgrenadiers but leave out everything that makes them Volksgrenadiers.

why do people always disregard obers when asking for non doc elite infantry?
sure you need 60 munitions, but then again theyre probably the best elite infantry in the game, with a wide variety of abilities, really really strong vet bonuses, and recently they had their reinforce reduced so its a lot more feasible to have multiple squads of them.

also about the munitions cost, just accomodate for the fact that youre gonna upgrade. dont plant a shitton of mines, liberally use grenades or upgrade all your volks with shreks and then realize when you build obers u have 0 munitions for an lmg. think ahead and save!

if you go a mech/battlegroup build where you dont go schwrer, doesnt it make sense that you pick a doctrine that fills your hole of elite inf? i mean OKW do have the most infantry call ins in the game (falls, jli, fusiliers, mg34 kinda)

also lol @ the people who want pre-nerf obers, you cant be fucking serious now

why do people always disregard obers when asking for non doc elite infantry?
sure you need 60 munitions, but then again theyre probably the best elite infantry in the game, with a wide variety of abilities, really really strong vet bonuses, and recently they had their reinforce reduced so its a lot more feasible to have multiple squads of them.

400MP / 60Mun / 40 Reinforce. They're very expensive troops that are less effective than spamming Volks, and are easy to wipe with explosives. Maybe if the broke the mold and could withstand explosives like vCoH Stormtroopers, but that would be beneficial to all mid-high level 4-man squads. That aside, American and British Infantry can almost keep up with upgrades but cost much less to field and reinforce, making Obers seem relatively overpriced. They weren't good back in their Terminator days, but they received the Relic Double-Nerf™ and are no longer game-changing shock units.

They weren't good back in their Terminator days, but they received the Relic Double-Nerf™ and are no longer game-changing shock units.

you actually cant be serious right now. pre-nerf obers were just absolutely disgusting, being able to directly attack machine guns and win. vetted up obers are the best long range unit in the game, and vet 4 will hands down beat any infantry unit thanks to their suppression. as with any 4 man unit, keep in mind explosive threats, keep your models spread out, retreat if their health gets low so you dont get gibbed my a random mortar or something.

also dont people always talk about the infamous okw manpower float? if you actually micro obers well they bleed relatively little compared to how much damage they dish out thanks to the fact theyre long ranged infantry

you actually cant be serious right now. pre-nerf obers were just absolutely disgusting, being able to directly attack machine guns and win. vetted up obers are the best long range unit in the game, and vet 4 will hands down beat any infantry unit thanks to their suppression. as with any 4 man unit, keep in mind explosive threats, keep your models spread out, retreat if their health gets low so you dont get gibbed my a random mortar or something.

By not good, I meant in a design sense, they were stupid overpowered. But now, they had their LMG nerfed and placed behind a price wall. As for "keep your models spread out", that's not an option to the player. You cannot stop the AI from bunching up if it wants to bunch up.

OKW floats because they spam Volks. If they use Obers they lose their float and map presence. Arguably it's more rewarding to just make more Volks, as most people do.

So SU is going to be overwhelmed by an OKW with more men, excellent AT and better AI infantry.

SU will never get overwhelmed that easy by the OKW since they can get their tech and tanks up more quickly in most occasions. Due to the fact rhat OKW needs to make a spearhead

What if the kubel got a higher AoE suppression?

That would make it far more usefull against blobs, not so much against single squads.

I think a goal here, should be to conserve the faction diversity.

As for "keep your models spread out", that's not an option to the player. You cannot stop the AI from bunching up if it wants to bunch up.

OKW floats because they spam Volks. If they use Obers they lose their float and map presence. Arguably it's more rewarding to just make more Volks, as most people do.

you can control unit spacing. do i sit behind the tiny bush where all my units are gonna clump up, or do i instead move into the open where my units will automatically be more spread out? obers have the benefit of having good defensive stats off the bat, so if the engage at max range, they can still win even if theyre not in cover.

sooo...why not use obers if youre floating? doesnt make any sense to not use resources

Volks changes:

Remove schrecks from volks.
Give them a 3x Stg44 upgrade + panzerfaust.
Kar98 dmg from 10 to 12.
Mp cost to 260. Pop from 6 to 7.
Stg44 upgrade requires a tech unlock in the HQ (200mp / 20 fuel) & 2 trucks deployed.
Tweak volks vet a little bit, give them a bit received acc on vet 5.

Ahhhhh, no.

If you are going to charge 260 for volks, they better come with those Mp-44s. Otherwise, they are simply more expensive and still completely useless. The 2 point increase in damage will not do.

In fact, by making them 260 you have effectively and completely crippled OKW early game, since they are now outnumbered by conscripts massively, and perform just like them..... Lets not talk about rifleman or infantry section that will outright steamroll them.

why do people always disregard obers when asking for non doc elite infantry?

They're obviously very strong, but they're not really a mainline infantry option due to the associated costs and popcap use. More of a support squad that should be protected behind Volksgrenadiers.

Jaegers and Panzerfusiliers are better candidates for OKW mainline infantry.

would be nice to see obers in t0 but unlocked with 1 truck deployed and the lmg locked in flak hq - stats and pricing remaining the same as now
other option might be bufing volks to gren strenght but making them much more expensive ( 300mp ) but that might make volks only blobs even more popular and somehow make callin inf obsolete too
an other idea might be giving okw a fixed tech tree progression like med mech flak and making mech units better (change pricing to much more manpower less fuel/ buffs ? )

Unless they do something soon,OKW is just about finished.Fcation needs major overhaul.

They're obviously very strong, but they're not really a mainline infantry option due to the associated costs and popcap use. More of a support squad that should be protected behind Volksgrenadiers.

Jaegers and Panzerfusiliers are better candidates for OKW mainline infantry.

jaegers are definitely not capable line infantry, theyre more of a support unit with a lot of utility. the point is, obers arent meant to be frontline infantry, theyre supposed to ELITE infantry, which imo they fill the role really well.

Usually you have your first truck out at minute 2-3, second at 8-9.
20 Fuel is about 1 minute of fuel income. The point of delaying it is to give soviets a breathing chance in early game. This changes will improve volks late game against vetted allies infantry, there's no need to overbuff them for early game. The Kar98 damage increase is enough for that.




The tankhunter squad could've two AT rifles together which are replaced by schrecks, the point hereby is that upgrades should be tactical decisions for every faction. Not no-brainer choices.




I personally don't upgrade schrecks anymore, simply because good players know how to deal with them. You get pushed, kited & bleed to death. Raketenwerfer + mines are more effective.




It's enough to lower the vet requirements. So that okw units actually reach vet 5 in reasonable time.

I totally agree with AchtAchter, in 90% of my OKW games I don´t upgrade to shrecks, but use a lot of mines and Raketenwerfer.

Since the shreck blob is the only problem why OKW doesn´t get any buffs, I´d be in favour of removing it from Volks and providing a snare ability and a small AI buff.

On the other hand Obers should get a cost and vet requirement reduction since they are far away from their Übermensch performance pre nerf and don´t scale well against other elite infantry or Rifles with 1919´s.

The Luchs is a cool unit in my opinion, but only from the design point of view. I never build one, since it comes much too late and the impact is pretty decent, but not enough. Though I don´t know how this could be changed. Moving it to another Tier would be too much. Perhaps tweaking its stats a bit?