OKW Infantry versus American Infantry(Rifles)

OKW needs better non-doctrinal infantry options to deal with vetted American infantry or Riflemen bonuses need to be toned down or a little bit of both.

Volks can only win through attrition as they are nothing more than a walking Shrek and Incendiary platform. Even when vetted they still do poorly against American and British infantry who gain massive bonuses to their received accuracy that makes them near impossible to kill. Even when vetted, they still don't do enough and are worse meatshields as they only get 0.81 Received accuracy to protect themselves vs small-arms.

Sturmpioneers are squishy and take too long to get veterancy and need to close to be effective. And even vetted American troops can run at them and not care given that Sturms have to do all the damage for the Volks.

Obers are effective especially when vetted, but require munitions right off the bat to be effective for their high cost. Furthermore their timing is off due to the need for the T4 so you either rush them out or don't get them at all/replace with doctrinal call-ins.

Leigs can still sort of do the work as they have suppression, but they're still not as powerful or reliable as MGs vs blobs.

Of course OKW does have fuel options, but given they have the fuel penalty, they need manpower-based options to fight off Allied infantry. Of course we don't want to break them vs Soviets whose infantry has stayed the same aside from the Conscript vet 3 received accuracy boost so I'm not asking for massive changes but slight ones like the ones below.

At the moment it feels like the reverse of the start of WFA where armour was needed to deal with OKW infantry as they were unkillable now it's just reversed.

Some Suggestions(Pick, choose or combination or add your own):

-Tone down the Rifleman Vet 3 Received Accuracy to 15% from 20% so its 0.63 Recieved accuracy when at Vet 3 rather than 0.59. Not much but a smidge easier to hit.

-Give OKW a non-doctrinal MG either in the BGHQ or replace the Kubel. They need suppression to deal with blobs and they don't have snipers like Ostheer to inflict manpower bleed/win engagements. They have to toss infantry at the problem and fight head-on rather than relying on positional play of Ostheer.

-Lower veterancy requirements on units like Sturms so they can scale better. Obers at least can vet fast as they are accurate, can fight at range and get an LMG. Sturms need to be fed dozens of troops to start being able to hurt vetted Allied troops.

-Slightly boost the Volks Received Accuracy. Not to Terminators, but maybe to 0.7-0.75 from 0.81 so they can meat shield for the elites better.

-Revamp the Volk Rifle so there is greater potential such as a slight damage increase so they require one less shot to drop a model. 12 damage from 10. DPS remains the same from the start, scales better in the end.

tldr: OKW has a hell of a time fighting USF infantry. Critique suggestions at the bottom.

Or... Give Volks AI upgrade?
I can imagine Volks with MP44 upgrade and indendiary nades + doctrinal infiltration nades as quite useful infantry.

Or... Give Volks AI upgrade?
I can imagine Volks with MP44 upgrade and indendiary nades + doctrinal infiltration nades as quite useful infantry.

I'm fine with the current rifle buffs(could be toned down by 5-10% less received accuracy) if volks had their own AI upgrade so I wouldn't have to spam jaeger light infantry or autopick scavenge when I see rifle company half the time.

yeah, volks need some love.

Thing is though JLI and Fusiliers are extremely effective.

OKW does need a lot of help because it's the weakest faction, but if nondoc anti infantry capabilities are buffed, doctrinal options should be nerfed

I'd much rather see sturms and Obers get buffs then the volks. They are underused and volks are already spammed enough as is. No reason to increase that further and go back to the volks blobs we spent so many patches trying to fix.

OKW's infantry is powerful enough. It just sucks in the suppression department. I personally would like to see a rework for the Kübel.

OKW's infantry is powerful enough. It just sucks in the suppression department. I personally would like to see a rework for the Kübel.

Or you know, just replace it with mg34.

I'd much rather see sturms and Obers get buffs then the volks. They are underused and volks are already spammed enough as is. No reason to increase that further and go back to the volks blobs we spent so many patches trying to fix.

Obers need an MP cost reduction (and maybe an cost increase to their LMG34 after that, it's definitely worlds better than an LMG42 or 1919A6 despite costing 60, but I digress) and Sturms could stand to get their weapon ranges tweaked - they get max DPS at range 3 and their mid range is 15 with 25% less DPS unlike PGs' 19 (there's also a weird part where Sturms' far range is 28 so their DPS can't increase until at least within range 27, but I doubt many care too much about that since Sturms will only win against Shocks standing still past range 28).

Obviously Sturms deserve a bit less for repairing well and building defences and costing 20 MP less, but those in total strike me as a tad too much (...while many players are still quite unwilling to use PGs too).

OKW's infantry is powerful enough. It just sucks in the suppression department. I personally would like to see a rework for the Kübel.

How?

Thing is though JLI and Fusiliers are extremely effective.

OKW does need a lot of help because it's the weakest faction, but if nondoc anti infantry capabilities are buffed, doctrinal options should be nerfed

Well, that isn't really a buff then if you cripple commanders, will they nerf rangers because rifles are very potent with recent buff? If they buff cons will they nerf shocks or guards? Even like this most OKW commanders are garbage. Some very good units and alooot of dead weight. Sure, nerf Fuiliers that perform very good but then buff other things in other commanders, too much useless/broken things in OKW commanders. Yea there are bad commanders in other factions too, but they also have very "balanced" commanders with good all around things u can always use, in OST you have CAS or any tiger or ferdi commander with stuka, recon and scopes, SOV, alot of very bad commanders but also couple of them that u can always use, USF, rifle and airborn, with UKF u have royal engineer and vanguard. With OKW u have... that one with fusiliers.

Volks changes:

Remove schrecks from volks.
Give them a 3x Stg44 upgrade + panzerfaust.
Kar98 dmg from 10 to 12.
Mp cost to 260. Pop from 6 to 7.
Stg44 upgrade requires a tech unlock in the HQ (200mp / 20 fuel) & 2 trucks deployed.
Tweak volks vet a little bit, give them a bit received acc on vet 5.

Other changes:

Put MG34 into Mechanized Headquarters, replace it in the doctrines with the MG42.
Create a Tankhunter squad in the Battlegroup headquaters. 300 mp 4 men unit that can upgrade to schrecks.

And there you have your fixes. If you want heal & suppression platform you need to go t2 + t3, instead of skipping t3 like its usually the case nowadays. Combined arms play is enhanced, single unit spam reduced.

Volks still won't stand up to upgraded allies infantry but are more viable. The increased mp cost will reduce spam and force players to do decisions whether they want upgraded volks or elite infantry.

Why tweak the vet when majority of the time the game is over before your volks even hit vet5?

Volks are great AT units. That's why they're spammed and obers deal with rifles perfectly fine. It's just that obers cost too much and their reinforce time sucks.

1. Tone down Rifles' vet3
2. Nerf ISs' RE, they are not 35 per model anymore.

Then, give Volks some "small" buffs. I think giving them STG44s would not be a good option. it's interesting I give you that. But first of all, let's be realistic here it's not gonna happen. And even if does happen, Relic is gonna give them pea shooters, or Ober STG.

Simply better accuracy and RoF with vet might be OK. Or give them Ober KAR at vet3. The will need price increase then.

SturmPios on the other hand, they either need better RE or better Mid damage profile. Their STGs are actually SMGs and they don't have enough effective HP to get close.

I think it Volks are fixed, a lot of problems would be solved.

Flack halftrack or Luchs are great for boosting anti infantry potential.

The key to okw is using your vehicles to support your infantry. A little bit of suppression makes sturmpios a lot scarier because they can't be focused down.

Or really if you need a crutch that badly, the doctrine with mg34 + fallschirmjaegers is a good choice. Falls are extremely high dps at all ranges and have great vet bonuses and an mg34 or two are a bit more reliable than a kubel wagon in the mid game.

Honestly OKE struggles far more with good medium tank play than they do mass infantry. Good Sherman or M8a1 play is the real struggle unless you're damn well prepared for them.

Flack halftrack or Luchs are great for boosting anti infantry potential.

The key to okw is using your vehicles to support your infantry. A little bit of suppression makes sturmpios a lot scarier because they can't be focused down.

Or really if you need a crutch that badly, the doctrine with mg34 + fallschirmjaegers is a good choice. Falls are extremely high dps at all ranges and have great vet bonuses and an mg34 or two are a bit more reliable than a kubel wagon in the mid game.

Honestly OKE struggles far more with good medium tank play than they do mass infantry. Good Sherman or M8a1 play is the real struggle unless you're damn well prepared for them.

Luchs is only good vs Brits or Soviet T1 play. (Which hardly happens these days.)

Flaktrack is only good vs LT tier, and even then it can be negated by M15 or nice nade play.

IMO buffing Flaktrack is a good idea.

Volks changes:

Remove schrecks from volks.
Give them a 3x Stg44 upgrade + panzerfaust.
Kar98 dmg from 10 to 12.
Mp cost to 260. Pop from 6 to 7.
Stg44 upgrade requires a tech unlock in the HQ (200mp / 20 fuel) & 2 trucks deployed.
Tweak volks vet a little bit, give them a bit received acc on vet 5.

requires 20 fuel/200mp upgrade plus double truck setup for fuel starved faction? Lol you' re pushing it even for a strategist, that is an insane requirement. Other factions get their infantry upgrades after one tech up or upgrade. A bit received acc on vet 5? Better get rid of the vet 5 and give them 3 vet levels while lelic is at it.

Other changes:

Put MG34 into Mechanized Headquarters, replace it in the doctrines with the MG42.
Create a Tankhunter squad in the Battlegroup headquaters. 300 mp 4 men unit that can upgrade to schrecks.

so you get a dedicated tankhunter squad that you still have to upgrade with shrecks afterwards? Where is the logic in that?

And there you have your fixes. If you want heal & suppression platform you need to go t2 + t3, instead of skipping t3 like its usually the case nowadays. Combined arms play is enhanced, single unit spam reduced.

Volks still won't stand up to upgraded allies infantry but are more viable. The increased mp cost will reduce spam and force players to do decisions whether they want upgraded volks or elite infantry.

I don't see how this is a fix, this is a straight up harsh nerf. OKW is the weakest faction as of now. These changes will hammer it into the ground. Without the shreck units being available early in the game, the faction dies.

What OKW needs is the absurd vet 5 removed and altered to a 3 vet system. Sturms should get the shrecks upgrade, that can't be toggled. Volks should get mp44, but only 3 and the mg34 needs to be in the HQ, but only available after a truck is setup. And raketten needs to provide green cover for the crew....

1. Tone down Rifles' vet3
2. Nerf ISs' RE, they are not 35 per model anymore.

Then, give Volks some "small" buffs. I think giving them STG44s would not be a good option. it's interesting I give you that. But first of all, let's be realistic here it's not gonna happen. And even if does happen, Relic is gonna give them pea shooters, or Ober STG.

So SU is going to be overwhelmed by an OKW with more men, excellent AT and better AI infantry.

might be out of topic, but in the department of suppression, the kubel need to be replaced by mg34

OR

make the damn thing to be able to lock positions, as they sometimes just jump to the nearest squad, even if i actually micro it to attack squad that is far BUT needs to be pinned (i.e. shocks). for example like a hold fire button (H) which make the kubel lock an area like maxim mg (so they wont move around when theres infantry closing from the rear) and dont break their suppression stance

Luchs is only good vs Brits or Soviet T1 play. (Which hardly happens these days.)

Flaktrack is only good vs LT tier, and even then it can be negated by M15 or nice nade play.

IMO buffing Flaktrack is a good idea.

Just use the Luchs to harass capping squads on the edges of the map if he has too much AT. Flak halftrack is better used defensively to protect your infantry.

Just use the Luchs to harass capping squads on the edges of the map if he has too much AT. Flak halftrack is better used defensively to protect your infantry.

I accept that Luchs is good at flank protection, but with okws fuel scarcity and the fact that you will always be on the back foot as them unless you get lucky spamming JLI, Fusiliers, and Leigs, it's not worth the resources for that unit.

Similarly, for a frail defensive tool the Flaktrack is not worth 55 fuel. (45? Been a while, staying away from OKW for time being)

IMO flak track should be way cheaper, like 30 fuel but with a performance nerf as well. Luchs I guess is fine, just a weird unit.