Current state of ostheer.

I have done some numbers on this (am writing up a post for the gameplay section right now as well which is more complete) But I think ostheer has three main problems:

1) Misaligned fuel tech costs vis-a-vis USF and ESPECIALLY UKF. This is primarily because USF and UKF (to a greater extent) can skip on a lot of their 'intended' teching by skipping upgrades. Particularly UKF which only really needs the weapon rack upgrade due to its long-range orientation n terms of infantry and superior defensive bonuses = better at stalling.

Just as one example: The minimum total resource cost (teching + unit cost - starting resources) for Ost to get a StuG out is 615 mp, 265 fu. The same cost for UKF to build a centaur varies from 510 mp 230 fu to 910 285 fu (all upgrades, not counting AEC/Bofors because teching for them without building is just stupid, and thats a unit before centaur) i.e. all else equal, the UKF player can get a Centaur out upto 2 mins before the first Ost StuG by neglecting upgrades. Or 5 mins in the case of Centaur-P4 comparison (P4 costs 135-90 = 45 extra fuel)

Against USF there is a similar issue on a lesser scale fuel wise. Also, vs USF, ost has much steeper mp costs. E.g. total mp cost for stuG - 615 mp. mp costs for sherman vary from 380 (min) to 680 (max). Obviously the real difference is lesser but its still enough for an extra squad in most cases. Factor in the 'free' officer squad (which is basically an extra rifle squad) and the mp disparity gets skewed more.

2) Poor infantry scaling late game. Especially in light of UKF and USF infantry late game which have superior veterancy (both UKF/USF) and superior weaponry (UKF only).

3) Some over-priced/underperforming units in terms of resource expenditure. PzIV comes to mind (compared to cromwell)

All wehrmacht needs is a Ranger-Shock like, CP2 to CP3, excelling at cqc a shock assault unit. Equipped with either StGs or 5x better stat MP40s. I want it because there will be no upcoming Panzergrenadier buff whatsoever.

The new rec acc of usf rifles really screwed up infantry balance. I think MAYBE vet1 15% + vet2 15% would make rifles a little better without needing silver bullets to kill them.

Tommies should reinforce at 30 mp and grens 28. Also, remove tommies' ability to build green cover and give it to grens - voila, problem solved

At least prostheer has mg42s to negate the damage riflemen squads at vet 3 can do.

OKW is just gardened with vet 3 rifle blobs(bonus if they have BARs) running around killing everything.

Ost infantry needs to get updated to compete with Riflemen and inf sections

Right now everything depends on Mg42 catching whatever elite infantry/swarms of units, because grens cannot compete with western infantry at any point of the game

and of course things like pack howitzer having no counter, fast light vehicles coming out when T2 just unlocks means outside of a major push with FHT, Ost is on the defensive until they eventually lose or the allied player threw too hard.

and no the pack howitzer nerf was a slap, they are still pinning squads 24/7, they just have to be micro-ed now.

At least prostheer has mg42s to negate the damage riflemen squads at vet 3 can do.

OKW is just gardened with vet 3 rifle blobs(bonus if they have BARs) running around killing everything.

Ost is in the same nightmare lol

Ost is in the same nightmare lol

The astronomically-inclined hamster did just mention using HMG42s for suppressing.

A few minor thoughts, not an exhaustive list:

G43s: Fine on Grenadiers, but could possibly use a CP reduction. Main issue is how they work on PGs where it's a downgrade in the majority of situations. They would need a drastic boost at the mid-long range to make the trade-off worth it. G43s for Grens is still a complete upgrade for them.

251 Half-Track: Just needs a boost to armour base. Could have an improved MG to actually help it vet when no flamers are around.

Tech: Reduction for the T4 building. 260 manpower and 75 Fuel is way too much. Even if it's considered the 'Luxury tier' the units themselves are also very expensive. The cheapest unit is the panzerwerfer and while it's good, doesn't warrant T4 alone.

Brummbar: Give it heavy crush to help its terrible pathing. I don't think its scatter is bad when its using attack ground. Lower the cost in terms of fuel.

Panzergrenadiers: as elchino7 keeps saying, making part of their vet 2 come at vet 1. They perform well, just not against infantry who have already gained vet by the time they arrive.

Other things probably need to be tuned for the other factions aka WFA/Brits.

Yea, one of the reasons why I find Ostheer really un fun is because the entire game it feels like you are just preparing for or reacting to what the allies are making.

+1

You have to defend against the Allies light armor rush all the time. You don't have a light armor tier and have a heavy armor tier but it's hard to tech to T4 when you have tech to T3.

its the strongest faction overall. any buffs to it would just kill the game. If some usf or brit inf are OP (looks they arent) at some stage of the game - make minor changes to them.
But dont buff wehr cuz its already strong even in hands of bad players and esp OP in hand of good ones

its the strongest faction overall. any buffs to it would just kill the game. If some usf or brit inf are OP (looks they arent) at some stage of the game - make minor changes to them.
But dont buff wehr cuz its already strong even in hands of bad players and esp OP in hand of good ones

At this juncture your trolling is becoming unimaginative. Don't you think you should actually play the faction before judging its merits? Also, nerf Germs? Are you struggling with diarrhea or something? Best of luck in any case.

222 needs a HP buff and cost increasing to make it a soft counter to light armors.Pz4 should have more pens for its cost.Brumbar needs some love.The accuracy should be buffed then the cost should be reduced slightly.

T4 cost should be reduced. 120fuel is too expensive.Considering simply reducing the T4 cost will make skipping to T4 more easily, increase the BP2 cost then decrease the T3 cost for balance.I have a suggestion like this:

BP2 from 45 to 85fuel
T3 from 75 to 35fuel
BP3 doesn't need changes, still 45fuel
T4 from 75 to 35fuel

222 definitely needs to be buffed. It's supposed to help harass and counter infantry yet gets shot up by blobs like a paper car.

Give the Wehrmacht one single shock unit at any stage of the game, please.

Pgrens AT and AI terminators.
wehr is the faction that needed some minor but important nerfs. Like commander with tiger and AT strafe togheter.

Ostheer units that are obsolete:
Gren - 30 mp? why is tommy cheaper and rifle 28 mp infantry

Its absurd how they complain about gren 30 reinforcment cost while its one of the cheaap infantry in the game with stats and abilities that are beyond that price. rifle is a 5 model squad.

Basic entity is a squad not a model. If Rifles were 4 model squad they would cost 35 to reinforce.
Grens costs costs 120 to reinforce, rifles costs 140.
I think they just lie for some reason no one can be idiot not to understand those simple things.

Why is Daspoulos permabanned? I see nothing offensive in his post history. One of the few players who answered cries for nerfs and buffs with logical and well thought out answers

I mean, can you believe this guy? This must be trolling, no one is this ignorant.

Anyway, What Robbie says should be written in gold. As ostheer, you are only responding to the enemy and you have to hope for a mistake on their side. I think 222 needs Armor buff and not HP buff. Give it a better accuracy and small AoE buff and you have a shock vehicle to kite infantry. If you only give it Armor and not HP, Captain tier can easily counter it and Lt. tier would still have a chance with AAHT and Bazookas.

T4 argument is also right. Both the structure and units are way too expensive. Panther is fine as a unit but meh as a T4 vehicle. Pzwerfer is where it should be, and brummbar is both expensive and lackluster.

I mean, can you believe this guy? This must be trolling, no one is this ignorant.

Anyway, What Robbie says should be written in gold. As ostheer, you are only responding to the enemy and you have to hope for a mistake on their side..

Prior to USF/UKF this made sense since SU had no way (aside from one commander) to set up forward positions and Ost could dig in.

Now the whole thing is out of whack.

How come we can still talk in this thread when OP is perma banned lol.

Btw, what got him banned anyway?

How come we can still talk in this thread when OP is perma banned lol.

Btw, what got him banned anyway?

because hes banned he has no valid points? ok

How come we can still talk in this thread when OP is perma banned lol.

Btw, what got him banned anyway?

Banning someone doesn't lock their threads or invis their posts
However as people are asking:

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If you want to discuss it please start a separate thread or PM the Mod Team

Now back to your normal discussion'

WiFiDi - edited for increased clarity, voort feel free to touch up the grammar!