There are alot of threads wanting some kind of direct or indirect nerf to volks with schrek. The main at options for OKW are schreck, rakten, jagd, and panther. 1 of which can be overran easily, the jagd being good, and the panther being a near auto loss if lost too early.
To be honest until brits showed up I didnt see okw with a large at issue. Now I'd say in 1v1 its not bad, but in team games it can get horrendous late game with just a loss or two of at. Even with mines put into the array, if you can that is.
Volks schreck, necessary evil or no?
28 Oct 2015, 14:41 PM
#1
Posts: 128
28 Oct 2015, 14:49 PM
#2
Posts: 473
Permanently Banned
There are alot of threads wanting some kind of direct or indirect nerf to volks with schrek. The main at options for OKW are schreck, rakten, jagd, and panther. 1 of which can be overran easily, the jagd being good, and the panther being a near auto loss if lost too early.
To be honest until brits showed up I didnt see okw with a large at issue. Now I'd say in 1v1 its not bad, but in team games it can get horrendous late game with just a loss or two of at. Even with mines put into the array, if you can that is.
The faction should have some kind of manpower penalty, see its fuel penalty removed and let the ammo income stay as it is. This will result in less spam and throwing away of volks squads at 235 mp because you have enough in the bank. Players will reach the fuel requirements for tanks quicker, but will have to spend their manpower wisely. Teching should be increased slightly to not have a 7 minute Schwere.
Volks need to lose the shrecks and sturmpios should get the shrecks. Volks are fine with their incendiary grenade to go without the shreck. Sturmpios need to vet a little bit quicker and the stungrenade should not be availlable when the Shrecks are purchased. Purchasing shrecks will make the purchase of mine sweepers for said sturmpioneer squad unaccesable. Sturmpios still have 3 stg44s availlable with a shreck, which will deal good damage, but the 25% damage reduction means their capabilities for Anti Infantry will be more limited, especially since they drop models quick.
OKW fixed.
Whenever I face USF as OKW, it feels like I have been strapped down into a mental hospital wheelchair, with legs that can't reach the floor to move myself forward and a nurse is trying to move the wheelchair backwards whilst I have to race a formula one car for a best of three laps.
It feels handicapped from the start
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It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
28 Oct 2015, 14:54 PM
#3
Posts: 393
Removing shrecks from volks will make them even more useless
The only reason COH2 is still around, is because it's preserved by salt.
28 Oct 2015, 14:58 PM
#4
4 Posts: 474
You will have to redesign OKW if you do anything with the shrecks on volks. Because the raketen is almost useless against flamer tanks or anything that manages to get on its side and isn't as slow as an IS-2. Well, at least it can retreat and be put into buildings with the downside of having no shield to give heavy cover to its crew 
Sadly, I don't think there will be any other changes to OKW design other than giving the p4 to the flak truck
Sadly, I don't think there will be any other changes to OKW design other than giving the p4 to the flak truck
28 Oct 2015, 15:32 PM
#5
Posts: 128
You will have to redesign OKW if you do anything with the shrecks on volks. Because the raketen is almost useless against flamer tanks or anything that manages to get on its side and isn't as slow as an IS-2. Well, at least it can retreat and be put into buildings with the downside of having no shield to give heavy cover to its crew
Sadly, I don't think there will be any other changes to OKW design other than giving the p4 to the flak truck
that's just it, there are a lot of complaints against it but by current faction design it is a needed crutch. sure you can hope that alayer of raktens and mines will work but thats a big if. The current presence of flame tanks (looking at you crocodile) makes the old ides obsolete (ideas of nerfs ppl had) this is really compounded by combined allied arms. two (or even one) crocodile backed up by some jacksons or other at can cause a flat out retreat or some losses. if you have ost and some caches not a huge deal but if strapped for resources its that snowball effect.
28 Oct 2015, 15:41 PM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You will have to redesign OKW if you do anything with the shrecks on volks. Because the raketen is almost useless against flamer tanks or anything that manages to get on its side and isn't as slow as an IS-2.
Why you make it sound like volks aren't susceptible to that as well? They burn just as fine vs flame tanks and if tank gets close to them, it can simply try to rout and roadkill them while forcing them to move constantly.
Shreck volks die to exactly same stuff puppchens die to in exactly the same way.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Oct 2015, 15:50 PM
#7
Posts: 647
its a necessary evil, okw AT comes either from p4s or panthers. they need schrecks to secure flanks.
but they can be adjusted definitely (read performance nerf plus a price cut). for their availability, they definitely do not need to be so accurate on volks or that kind of penetration
but they can be adjusted definitely (read performance nerf plus a price cut). for their availability, they definitely do not need to be so accurate on volks or that kind of penetration
28 Oct 2015, 16:08 PM
#8
3 
Posts: 658
Gib Volks more AI (rifle damage from 10 to 12), redesign the shreck into a PzFaust-like ability*, increase Volks cost to 240 (although it doesn't really matter) and be done with it.
I honestly prefer a snare to the current shreck.
* You buy the shreck upgrade for 90 muni but instead of getting a shreck, Volks get the ability to fire a shreck - for free because you have to buy it for every squad individually.
Same range/cooldown as PzFausts but penetration/damage of shrecks.
The results:
- rifle damage from 10 to 12 basically increases their DPS to a value slightly below Grens
- A-moving Volks blobs (with shrecks) won't work (anymore) against vehicles
- Shrecks basically get less range/higher cooldown compared to bazookas in exchange for 100% accuracy (same as PzFausts) and the ability to snare vehicles
- Volks don't lose a weapon slot
I honestly prefer a snare to the current shreck.
* You buy the shreck upgrade for 90 muni but instead of getting a shreck, Volks get the ability to fire a shreck - for free because you have to buy it for every squad individually.
Same range/cooldown as PzFausts but penetration/damage of shrecks.
The results:
- rifle damage from 10 to 12 basically increases their DPS to a value slightly below Grens
- A-moving Volks blobs (with shrecks) won't work (anymore) against vehicles
- Shrecks basically get less range/higher cooldown compared to bazookas in exchange for 100% accuracy (same as PzFausts) and the ability to snare vehicles
- Volks don't lose a weapon slot
28 Oct 2015, 16:49 PM
#9
4 Posts: 474
Why you make it sound like volks aren't susceptible to that as well? They burn just as fine vs flame tanks and if tank gets close to them, it can simply try to rout and roadkill them while forcing them to move constantly.
Shreck volks die to exactly same stuff puppchens die to in exactly the same way.
Volks can soft peddle around and aren't tied down to a weapon that if the guy holding it dies; another crewman has to take his place before they can move it again.
Which is why I also hate how maxims don't have teleporting crew men to carry the gun while the one holding it dies(hello mg42/34 crew).
28 Oct 2015, 17:47 PM
#10
Posts: 543
The only thing that I think could be changed is the price of the shrek, that should be 60. I think it's kinda idiotic that PG's get a "price cut" for 120 muni for their shrek upgrade.
OKW should be able to build cashes, if their income penalty is not removed. The volks lost their uber received accuracy because of blobbing issues, but every now and then I see a blob of riflemen running around and I can't do shit about it.
OKW should be able to build cashes, if their income penalty is not removed. The volks lost their uber received accuracy because of blobbing issues, but every now and then I see a blob of riflemen running around and I can't do shit about it.
28 Oct 2015, 17:48 PM
#11
Posts: 824
Gib Volks more AI (rifle damage from 10 to 12), redesign the shreck into a PzFaust-like ability*, increase Volks cost to 240 (although it doesn't really matter) and be done with it.
I honestly prefer a snare to the current shreck.
* You buy the shreck upgrade for 90 muni but instead of getting a shreck, Volks get the ability to fire a shreck - for free because you have to buy it for every squad individually.
Same range/cooldown as PzFausts but penetration/damage of shrecks.
The results:
- rifle damage from 10 to 12 basically increases their DPS to a value slightly below Grens
- A-moving Volks blobs (with shrecks) won't work (anymore) against vehicles
- Shrecks basically get less range/higher cooldown compared to bazookas in exchange for 100% accuracy (same as PzFausts) and the ability to snare vehicles
- Volks don't lose a weapon slot
Interesting idea, but a free vehicle snare would drive Allied players insane.
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28 Oct 2015, 17:50 PM
#12
Posts: 1484
Volks with Shreks are not a problem due to range nerf few patches ago. Also, OKW will not survive with out Shreks anyway.
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28 Oct 2015, 18:21 PM
#13
Posts: 46
Gib Volks more AI (rifle damage from 10 to 12), redesign the shreck into a PzFaust-like ability*, increase Volks cost to 240 (although it doesn't really matter) and be done with it.
I honestly prefer a snare to the current shreck.
* You buy the shreck upgrade for 90 muni but instead of getting a shreck, Volks get the ability to fire a shreck - for free because you have to buy it for every squad individually.
Same range/cooldown as PzFausts but penetration/damage of shrecks.
The results:
- rifle damage from 10 to 12 basically increases their DPS to a value slightly below Grens
- A-moving Volks blobs (with shrecks) won't work (anymore) against vehicles
- Shrecks basically get less range/higher cooldown compared to bazookas in exchange for 100% accuracy (same as PzFausts) and the ability to snare vehicles
- Volks don't lose a weapon slot
I really like the idea. I would not implement the snare for free (I guess this wasn´t intended,) but remove the Munition penalty and make the snare cost around 35 munitions. This would lead to more use of combined arms and erase the shreck blobs of death. After the centaur nerf and the bug fix of camo, I think the Püppchen (Raketenwerfer) is in a good spot to take the AT part.
28 Oct 2015, 22:25 PM
#14
Posts: 166
You will have to redesign OKW if you do anything with the shrecks on volks. Because the raketen is almost Sadly
OKW has plenty of anti-tank besides the Shreks. The Raketan is great and can retreat. The Puma and their early tanks are fantastic, etc.
28 Oct 2015, 23:01 PM
#15
4 Posts: 474
OKW has plenty of anti-tank besides the Shreks. The Raketan is great and can retreat. The Puma and their early tanks are fantastic, etc.
Every time I go mechanized instead of playing it safe and going battlegroup headquarters to flak truck horrible things happen to me
I remember when puma was meta but I'll wait post patch to see how well it does against the centaur rush/company of flamer rifles and e8s.
28 Oct 2015, 23:11 PM
#16
Posts: 4928
Why you make it sound like volks aren't susceptible to that as well? They burn just as fine vs flame tanks and if tank gets close to them, it can simply try to rout and roadkill them while forcing them to move constantly.
Volks are much more mobile and a group of them can fire a volley and retreat with minimal losses. A Raketen is at risk of being decrewed as soon as the flame tank gets in range and may not even have a chance to fire.
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29 Oct 2015, 02:03 AM
#17
Posts: 1930
volks need some type of anti-tank to secure the flank. I hate schreck blob but the OKW are dependent and addicted to them.
they will need faust if they lose the schreck.
they will need faust if they lose the schreck.
29 Oct 2015, 03:10 AM
#18
Posts: 622
OKW has plenty of anti-tank besides the Shreks. The Raketan is great and can retreat. The Puma and their early tanks are fantastic, etc.
NO one use puma now except AI since brit release, because it got shreds into pieces by centaur so is shreck volks, so battlegroup and rush JP4 is only option for OKW. which is quite boring.
anyway if remove volks schreck it gives to SP, it is pretty useless, same as give flamer to SP in the new OKW commander, it is quite rare to see OKW to go dual SP, no one spam it and Rakewafer the crew is too close to each other easily got 1 shot decrewed by any tank or nade. if remove volks schrech it could be really redesgin of the OKW infantry AT power, also it is weakest AI core infantry in the game, it can't really win the shoot out to any sq.
Gib Volks more AI (rifle damage from 10 to 12), redesign the shreck into a PzFaust-like ability*, increase Volks cost to 240 (although it doesn't really matter) and be done with it.
I honestly prefer a snare to the current shreck.
* You buy the shreck upgrade for 90 muni but instead of getting a shreck, Volks get the ability to fire a shreck - for free because you have to buy it for every squad individually.
Same range/cooldown as PzFausts but penetration/damage of shrecks.
The results:
- rifle damage from 10 to 12 basically increases their DPS to a value slightly below Grens
- A-moving Volks blobs (with shrecks) won't work (anymore) against vehicles
- Shrecks basically get less range/higher cooldown compared to bazookas in exchange for 100% accuracy (same as PzFausts) and the ability to snare vehicles
- Volks don't lose a weapon slot
your idea make me think Panzerfüsilier, so if it change to this prob no one gonna use Panzerfüsilier anymore, since they do samething, so maybe swap Panzerfüsilier with volks?
29 Oct 2015, 04:51 AM
#19
Posts: 2742
Five levels of veterancy is what makes volks so problematic. Combined with how AT weapons confer a great deal of XP, often ramping up that XP gain, an extremely cheap unit can became a highly vetted powerhouse rather quickly.
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29 Oct 2015, 11:21 AM
#20
Posts: 170
Gib Volks more AI (rifle damage from 10 to 12), redesign the shreck into a PzFaust-like ability*, increase Volks cost to 240 (although it doesn't really matter) and be done with it.
I honestly prefer a snare to the current shreck.
* You buy the shreck upgrade for 90 muni but instead of getting a shreck, Volks get the ability to fire a shreck - for free because you have to buy it for every squad individually.
Same range/cooldown as PzFausts but penetration/damage of shrecks.
The results:
- rifle damage from 10 to 12 basically increases their DPS to a value slightly below Grens
- A-moving Volks blobs (with shrecks) won't work (anymore) against vehicles
- Shrecks basically get less range/higher cooldown compared to bazookas in exchange for 100% accuracy (same as PzFausts) and the ability to snare vehicles
- Volks don't lose a weapon slot
The targetable Schreck would make them even better as Pzfaust has perfect accuracy, and clicking F and the enemy tank 5 times does not demand much micro.
I like the idea with 12 damage, though that would make them much more powerful than Cons, so the cost increase should be more significant (260 or so, OKW wouldn't even care). Panzerfusiliers would become completely obsolete, but nobody really cares about that.
Sturmpios getting the schreck and volks having their dps buffed would also be a good solution.
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