[Ost/Sov] [All modes] [ISU/Elefant docs OHKO Fixed Arty]
Posts: 509
So, here goes:
Problem: The ISU and Elefant doctrines both possess their factions' heavy bomb strikes (IL2 Bomb strike/Stuka Dive Bomb), which completely hard-counter artillery. By my rhinking this is unfair, as poor mobility and the need to stay stationary is reqquired of both ISU and Elefant, making the fixed artillery piece a natural counter, but the heavy bomb strikes completely negate this. Particularly egregious when combined with spotter planes.
Suggestion: Remove either recon or bomb strike abilities from elefant/ISU doctrines.
Posts: 509
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Artillery doesn't even counter these units anyway. Even well timed barrages will only manage to do 200 or 400 damage at most, which isn't really dangerous to these high health units. So it's doesn't really matter.
Exactly. It has been suggested in the past but only a handful of commanders have been change after release (Sturmtiger > PIV and Irregulars > AT partisans)
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I mean if they didnt counter artillery pieces then they would be overpriced. Coh2 ignores a lot of common sense, but I think heavy payload strikes such as these SHOULD destroy these in one strike.
Exactly. I'm not advocating a change to the heavy strikes at all. They can and should OHKO fixed arty. What I object to is doctrine combinations which include ISU/Ele AND strikes (and recon too, in Ostheer's case iirc)
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Or at least not with recon in the mix. I mean, sneaking near enough my fixed arty to get LoS to call in a bomber; fine. Spending 80 muni extra and calling in bomber at first pass of the spotter? No thanks.
Posts: 166
That feel when Relic said ML-20 is a counter to Elefant before the release
Did they really?
Posts: 670
Did they really?
I remember they did they said something like 'Ml-20 is the perfect counter to the Elegant, because it's so slow'. They said 'Soviets are the faction of hard counters', this is why we had to deal with shitty binary structure of old soviet faction for 2 years
(I could be mistaken, I wasn't paying attention to Coh2 at that time)
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I mean if they didnt counter artillery pieces then they would be overpriced. Coh2 ignores a lot of common sense, but I think heavy payload strikes such as these SHOULD destroy these in one strike.
You talk about bombing runs yes?
I don't think people have problem with them delivering one hit kills on arty, what is problematic here is the EASE to deliver the killing strike because of the reckon planes.
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It's not a problem because arty does not counter these units.
Well, it counters walls of support teams that protect it from infantry and tank assaults.
You aren't really assault focused once you go for ele or ISU, you mostly will camp on 2 VPs with some harrasement on 3rd.
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Well, it counters walls of support teams that protect it from infantry and tank assaults.
You aren't really assault focused once you go for ele or ISU, you mostly will camp on 2 VPs with some harrasement on 3rd.
I really don't think the elephant of it's doctrines are a problem man. You barely see them ingame and when the unit appears, just go full ATgun, zooke's, ...
I don't see a problem with this commander.
You've got a point though.
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I really don't think the elephant of it's doctrines are a problem man. You barely see them ingame and when the unit appears, just go full ATgun, zooke's, ...
I don't see a problem with this commander.
You've got a point though.
Actually, just recently while playing 2s I've faced Ele vs very campy players.
Arty and indirect fire was exactly what we needed, I've made a horrible mistake of thinking B4 will be useful instead of katy spam just because of reckon+stuka.
I didn't needed that B4 to counter ele, I needed it for entrenched MGs and PaKs and MG bunkers on top of all of that that prevented any non suicidal assault. I couldn't do it, because of reckon+stuka combo, it was a long, good and exhausting game, so muni wasn't an issue for anyone.
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Also there are more OP commanders balance wise (Vanguard, Rifle Company) that would rather needs adjustments than Recon & Bomb combo.
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B4/ML-20 is scrap metal 20 seconds after the barrage(ok, tad longer if you build it asap at 8cp).
Speaking of vanguard, it got heavy nerfs on preview with commandos and cros.
Rifle company the same with just vet1 now and flamers changed from AI weapon to almost anti garrison exclusive one, they still will be the way to go, but they aren't really IWINs they used to be.
I don't mind bombing runs, but the effort to pull them off on 600mp doctrinal piece should be more then two clicks you can do nothing about to prevent/react/respond to.
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