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russian armor

PG being incapable of anti-inf with the double shrek upgrade

16 Oct 2015, 12:02 PM
#21
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 11:42 AMJohnnyB


Ya know, "dedicated anti infantry squad" sounds strange when you talk about pzgrens... commandos being juuuust a liltle bit more expensive but far, far better....


Commandos melt PzGrens in close combat, BUT if they approach PzGrens through open field, PzGren will win without losing a single model or 1 model.
16 Oct 2015, 12:44 PM
#22
avatar of BlackHooligan

Posts: 150

can u imagine game where rangers of USF and pzgrens of Wermacht will toggle their schrecks?

IT WILL BE BLOBS WARS
16 Oct 2015, 13:09 PM
#23
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



Commandos melt PzGrens in close combat, BUT if they approach PzGrens through open field, PzGren will win without losing a single model or 1 model.


Post a video showing what you just wrote.
16 Oct 2015, 13:09 PM
#24
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 11:42 AMJohnnyB


Ya know, "dedicated anti infantry squad" sounds strange when you talk about pzgrens... commandos being juuuust a liltle bit more expensive but far, far better....



I guess that by "just a little bit more expensive" you are refering to the 350 MP price of a commando unit in the glider.
Dont forget that the true cost (the price you have to pay to have a unit) of commando is more something like 500-510 MP as you cant have them poping from nowhere. You have to build them from a glider. So the most precise price of commandos is more or less what the one of the callin aka 500 MP.
One could argue that the cost of the PG is higher due to the cost of the T2 tech, YES, but that T2 cost is divided by the number of T2 units you build during a game (in general this is 3-6 units). If you want to be complete you have to divide every tech cost by the number of units you build from previous tier (the result looks like a nice tree)
As a result the commandos happens to be more expensive than PG (dont forget there is an hidden cost to choose a commander) and i think you can't really compare them as on of them is a deadly close-combat specialist and the other is a versatile middle-range fighter that can change its role.
16 Oct 2015, 13:25 PM
#25
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 13:09 PMJohnnyB


Post a video showing what you just wrote.







I can prove everything I say. Im not biased. But it would nice if someone like you, so actice in balance section, finally upload a good replay ;)


Oh, and it's not preview with nerfed stens. It's current version with insane DPS.
So with the nerf, PzGrens will be able to win against approaching Commandos even without cover, I belive.
16 Oct 2015, 13:41 PM
#26
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

Lol.
PGrens are not a dedicated anti infantry squad, and they are not "elite" inf either, and they most certainly are not cost effective mainline infantry at all. Considering just how squishy they are, how expensive their upgrade is, and how easy it is to just push them to death if they are alone, they are seriously questionable AT as well.
They have a niche application for defending weapon team flanks, and they are good at that, but in general its a meh unit if there ever was one.
16 Oct 2015, 13:43 PM
#27
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1








I can prove everything I say. Im not biased. But it would nice if someone like you, so actice in balance section, finally upload a good replay ;)


Oh, and it's not preview with nerfed stens. It's current version with insane DPS.
So with the nerf, PzGrens will be able to win against approaching Commandos even without cover, I belive.

Dat last commando would have Easily Killed the last 4 pgrens :D
16 Oct 2015, 13:48 PM
#28
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 08:30 AMsamich
pgrens seem fine to me.


+1

If you decide to upgrade them, they are tank hunters and they "loose" their AI capabilities. That's something to take in account when upgrading :)
16 Oct 2015, 13:59 PM
#29
avatar of Keaper!
Donator 11

Posts: 135

I disagree, you either get good AI or good AT - pick one. If you don't feel the upgrade is worth it for AT get a different unit to cover your AT needs, not like you don't have plenty of options by the time shreck pgrens are available.
16 Oct 2015, 14:19 PM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


Dat last commando would have Easily Killed the last 4 pgrens :D

In johhnybs world, most certainly :thumbsup:

Also, are we seriously going to argue that squad upgraded with hard AT doesn't perform well vs infantry?

What next? PaK40 not good enough to fend off shocks, because PaK40 should counter units with armor?
16 Oct 2015, 14:24 PM
#31
avatar of Rekkettenn

Posts: 76

i agree, panzergrenadiers should be able to fight infatry and vehicles because they cost 340 mp and 120 munition.

maybe they should make it a six man squad so they are armed with 2 panzershrecks and 4 stgs/mp44 and to compensate id say lower the cost to around 290 mp to bring it in line with allied infantry costs
16 Oct 2015, 14:29 PM
#32
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 14:19 PMKatitof

In johhnybs world, most certainly :thumbsup:

Also, are we seriously going to argue that squad upgraded with hard AT doesn't perform well vs infantry?

What next? PaK40 not good enough to fend off shocks, because PaK40 should counter units with armor?

Flame barrage for pak maybe.
Serious Note i do think PzGrens needs a little buff for surviveability. Only a tiny one but right now you rarely See them because they are to much of a gamble to Work with (1 model is often dieing on approach which takes away alot of dps on a 4 man squad.) Its like the t-34 unit is solid but not solid enough to be a common build choice
16 Oct 2015, 14:40 PM
#33
avatar of Skabinsk

Posts: 238

Vet 2 PGs destroy almost anything at medium range, you cannot charge them, even shocks will die charging them, they will lose at least 2 models, so now its 4v4 and then once the shocks are close, bundle nade, boom.
16 Oct 2015, 14:42 PM
#34
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

Vet 2 PGs destroy almost anything at medium range, you cannot charge them, even shocks will die charging them, they will lose at least 2 models, so now its 4v4 and then once the shocks are close, bundle nade, boom.

Vet 3 t-34 stronk too, is this a balance Argument? What if shocks are vet2 too? And they have smoke to close the mid range btw
16 Oct 2015, 14:47 PM
#35
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

i agree, panzergrenadiers should be able to fight infatry and vehicles because they cost 340 mp and 120 munition.

maybe they should make it a six man squad so they are armed with 2 panzershrecks and 4 stgs/mp44 and to compensate id say lower the cost to around 290 mp to bring it in line with allied infantry costs


So... Paras with 120ammo LMG upgrade should have 2 LMGs and 2 zooks? :D
16 Oct 2015, 14:49 PM
#36
avatar of Jewdo

Posts: 271

I love to use PG, still they are no where near as good as Shocks or Commandos and I bet, Rangers :P

Lose to double bars as well, not that I have a problem with that.

I use them defensively, behind cover against approaching units.

(if IS can do it, so can PG)

I use them to flank snipers and weapon crews..

I like get one early when I didnt get time to mine, or when im not sure where to mine, or if my opponent went early sweepers.

I like to have 3 Grens and 2 PG's. If I had to shrek up, id get another PG. Then again, I like to go for tier 4 after a couple of tanks from tier 3 as well so..
16 Oct 2015, 14:50 PM
#37
avatar of Skabinsk

Posts: 238


Vet 3 t-34 stronk too, is this a balance Argument? What if shocks are vet2 too? And they have smoke to close the mid range btw


Shocks have smoke????!!!! since when, THAT'S OP NERF!!! :new:
16 Oct 2015, 14:54 PM
#38
avatar of Diomedes

Posts: 103

Lol.
PGrens are not a dedicated anti infantry squad, and they are not "elite" inf either, and they most certainly are not cost effective mainline infantry at all. Considering just how squishy they are, how expensive their upgrade is, and how easy it is to just push them to death if they are alone, they are seriously questionable AT as well.
They have a niche application for defending weapon team flanks, and they are good at that, but in general its a meh unit if there ever was one.




Sorry but they are.
16 Oct 2015, 14:55 PM
#39
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225





Sorry but they are.

Don't eat the yellow snow, and don't put too much faith in unit descriptions...;)
16 Oct 2015, 14:56 PM
#40
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