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russian armor

Hull Down

13 Oct 2015, 17:33 PM
#21
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503

Ability is interesting, if not very niche. AT guns nullify the added benefits in most cases, but it can still work.

This is a theoretical idea that looks really cool, but is practically very limited in use.

I wanted to make this commander work but it's so freaking impractical in 1v1 because if you set up defensively you often won't be in a good position and have to break out of HD anyway and because it can't hill down itself like churchills in COH1 you have to send Gren/pio/PG to do it and that it frankly usually a poor use of your time where you could be capping or getting into position for attaching/repelling attack. Ostheer is already less mobile than the allies so unless you have locked down a center or something and the end of game is approaching, you are hamstringing yourself.

TL;DR This ability has almost always been a waste in 1v1 due to very fluid nature of that matchup. Does give me the idea to try it in big team game where it might actually be viable as gameplay is more static/less mobile, flanking
13 Oct 2015, 17:51 PM
#22
avatar of J1N6666

Posts: 306

It definitely gives you more range(10 or so). Managed to get on the same range as an SU85 with a panther, using hull down. As for the other effects, I dont really know. I think it affects damage taken in a similar fashion the command p4 would. But not sure on that one.

And no, you cant hull down your allies tanks. It used to be possible in beta and shortly after it, but they removed that in one of the earlier patches after release, unfortunately. Never understood why but meh, so be it.


Because I love spamming it on an ally's tiger to prevent them from moving.
14 Oct 2015, 17:00 PM
#23
avatar of SgtBulldog

Posts: 688

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2015, 12:38 PMJohnnyB
Though it looks nice on paper, practically the hulling down thing is not such a big deal. Entrench a tank and it will be eventualy killed by AT guns because he can't effectively retaliate especially if it's a panther. And even if the ATs would be killed too, the trade off is in ATs favor. Coh2 victory means fast, mobile, strong units not emplacements and trenches.


This plus the fact that dug in tanks are sitting ducks. With all the ranged weapons in the game, the dug in positions quickly become swarmed by artillery.

Stationary targets are just units waiting to die in mid- to late game.
14 Oct 2015, 17:26 PM
#24
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

I don't see how hulled in tanks are vulnerable or exposed. It's pretty much instant to cancel them and just immediately drive away, plus it's free to dig in. How is a hulled down tank any more fragile than just a normal stationary tank?
14 Oct 2015, 17:46 PM
#25
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

I don't see how hulled in tanks are vulnerable or exposed. It's pretty much instant to cancel them and just immediately drive away, plus it's free to dig in. How is a hulled down tank any more fragile than just a normal stationary tank?


It's not that they're more fragile, but it's due to the fact their standing still which leaves them vulnerable to long-range AT in general, particularly ATGs. It also limits your ability to respond to mobile Allied armour and this is furthered by the fact you need an infantry squad to hulldown the tank in the first place.

It's not a garbage ability, but unlike some abilities, its situational which is ideal in more urban maps where you can't bring up long-range AT without being fired upon or you want to set a defensive position in an open map and force out ATGs.
14 Oct 2015, 19:16 PM
#26
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503



It's not that they're more fragile, but it's due to the fact their standing still which leaves them vulnerable to long-range AT in general, particularly ATGs. It also limits your ability to respond to mobile Allied armour and this is furthered by the fact you need an infantry squad to hulldown the tank in the first place.

It's not a garbage ability, but unlike some abilities, its situational which is ideal in more urban maps where you can't bring up long-range AT without being fired upon or you want to set a defensive position in an open map and force out ATGs.

just used this in 3 games of 4v4 last ngiht whenever I could get a chance with idle troops I would put my commmand tank/ostwind/etc hulled down behind shotblockers to ward off infantry pushes and it was nice however it often had to get cancelled with no effect becuase ATG or enemy tanks would appear so all in all no disadvantage and sometimes good but I think it's really only viable on inf support tanks in maps with shot blockers because otherwise you are asking to get overwhelmed by AT wall and you will just have to pick up and move back.
14 Oct 2015, 19:18 PM
#27
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503

If the tanks could hull themselves down teh ability would get used a lot more since my infantry are rarely idle with time on their hands to do things like hull down. They are either healing, capping, fighting, scouting...will keep trying to use this ability becuase it is intriguing but I just liked the Churchill in vCOH hull down so much better although it wasn't realistic so I shouldn't complain.
15 Oct 2015, 05:52 AM
#28
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

I don't see how hulled in tanks are vulnerable or exposed. It's pretty much instant to cancel them and just immediately drive away, plus it's free to dig in. How is a hulled down tank any more fragile than just a normal stationary tank?


Well why hulling down a tank in the first place? Simple, because you want to keep a position while putting a good fight. It's a defensive ability I think we can all agree on that.
But then, its verry purpose it's not properly fulfilled because hulled down tanks are vulnerable to an extent, because of their imobility which expose them to AT guns that have longer ranges, AT platforms as su-85s (su-85s can spot for themselves in addition) and even artilery pieces, especialy B4s.

One could say, "so what"? A hulled down tank has better defense. Ok, let's say you can take one more AT shot than usual. Is that so great? No, it's kind of meh.
15 Oct 2015, 09:16 AM
#29
avatar of Noscul

Posts: 19

I really wished now that I tested the old centaur with hull down to see if it could take on AT guns armies.

This ability is more map situational than anything, the few times I setup hulled tanks is when they are in ambushing spots such as the bottom right cutoff of Angoville so long range units have difficulty against it. Maybe more tank camo is what hull down needs :foreveralone: Plus the reduced damage take is great against indirect fire like if a priest just starts firing on them out of nowhere and they happen to be hulled down you might take a few hits then unhull and run out.
15 Oct 2015, 10:05 AM
#30
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Centaur + hull down would be hell on CoH2
15 Oct 2015, 10:25 AM
#31
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1

Hull down on elefant would be particularly useless, no? Without a turret, it would basically be a vastly more flankable version of a Pak43.
15 Oct 2015, 10:45 AM
#32
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 10:25 AMCyanara
Hull down on elefant would be particularly useless, no? Without a turret, it would basically be a vastly more flankable version of a Pak43.

Except PaK43 doesn't have 87 range.
If you'd parked a pair of PaKs behind it, nothing short of 3 comets would be a threat to ele on hull down.

When you'd use it is map dependent, but I can see it being potent on minsk or kharkov, even ettlebruck or whatever is the name of this abomination.
20 Oct 2015, 14:18 PM
#33
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

I've never used hull down if I'm not wrong. Perhaps once

But it was a huge success that one time. That's why you never did it again.
20 Oct 2015, 14:20 PM
#34
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

:(

But it was a huge success that one time. That's why you never did it again.


Haha, It went okish, if I can remember. But mainly the doctrine they're in is crap (except the Elefant one, since the Elefant Kappa)
20 Oct 2015, 19:13 PM
#35
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Meh, hull down isn't good. Fun for comp stomps I guess.
20 Oct 2015, 19:49 PM
#36
avatar of Unshavenbackman

Posts: 680

I imagine that this game has a fear shear of underused and underrated abilities and this is one of those. The ability isnt bad in its own, rather the skill-level for coh2players is probaly to low for this to happen.
20 Oct 2015, 22:30 PM
#37
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I imagine that this game has a fear shear of underused and underrated abilities and this is one of those. The ability isnt bad in its own, rather the skill-level for coh2players is probaly to low for this to happen.


More like it's on niche commanders.
Defensive has never been used.
Festung armor did see some use, but pak43 has fallen out of meta and you have other commanders such as Mobile defense which provides you with command tank and smoke.
Fortified armor did saw some use, specially with button chain + ISU era, but still i see more Jaeger instead (it's also a DLC commander).

21 Oct 2015, 13:30 PM
#38
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

I imagine that this game has a fear shear of underused and underrated abilities and this is one of those. The ability isnt bad in its own

I agree and it makes perfect sense. When there are enough combos of gameplay: units and abilites, and enough situations (maps... like Rostov >:(, tactics, COLD TECH...>:( e t c), not every possible play can reasonably be fully tested. And this adds charm and continuous replay value of the game (>:(). I claim every commander ability is useful although some are more powerful and have wider application than others. I believe it is perfectly doable to win with the vanilla army, and so if the commander abiliy can be useful on its own (and it is), add something (and it does), it is an ability worth having.


Yup. So. But anyway, buff community commander tank traps!
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