Stuka Dive Bomb AoE... Has it been buffed indirectly?

It's a gamble. It only works if you can force a mass retreat with an inferior army.

If your opponent spends the same amount of munitions on his own abilities and weapons you're especially going to be behind. (Most players float like crazy though.) He'll have brens, bars or ppsh. He'll have medium tanks, artillery and likely more map control.

I could see it being more of a problem in scrub vs scrub (4v4) but in a real game mode I just don't think it's a big deal because you're trading army value for the opportunity to nuke him in the late game if he retreats everything together.

Dont forget that you Need good Timing and knowledge of how long the retreat path on each map is

It's a gamble. It only works if you can force a mass retreat with an inferior army.

If your opponent spends the same amount of munitions on his own abilities and weapons you're especially going to be behind. (Most players float like crazy though.) He'll have brens, bars or ppsh. He'll have medium tanks, artillery and likely more map control.

I could see it being more of a problem in scrub vs scrub (4v4) but in a real game mode I just don't think it's a big deal because you're trading army value for the opportunity to nuke him in the late game if he retreats everything together.

Okay, look, I tried playing nice with you, but the more you post the less I think you know what you're talking about. I mean, remember when you thought the SU-76 and the t-70 had the same gun, for God's sakes? Can you play a bit more vs. them before going off and defending it? Your post shows an immense lack of understanding of RTS and is not how this game works at all. Just like with that SU-76 fiasco.

You can easily defeat someone with an army that is under value vs. theirs. That's what a "counter" is. It's when a unit with less resources beats another unit with higher resources, putting you at an advantage. The commander lets you spam LMG grens. That holds off infantry. You can get 2-3 AT guns since you're not spending fuel so you don't have to tech up. That holds off tanks. No matter the unit comp, this will always either beat or hold them off while using less resources. Stall until 12 CP. Then do it.

And who cares if that strike doesn't win the game? I'll reiterate since you refuse to go back and read posts that already excuse yours: As long as it's uncounterable, it's cancerous to gameplay. Even if you can't do it every game. Even if you don't wipe their army every time. As long as you can do it SOME games, while wiping ANYTHING, as long as there is no counter, then it is cancerous. Get it?

In fact, why are you even defending it? My only suggestion is for it to not fire in the base sector. That's too much for you, right? Then go make a thread asking for all offmaps to be fired in the base. You can't do it because the playerbase is too casual? Then how about conceding this one, too? At least until you know how the game works better?

It's a gamble. It only works if you can force a mass retreat with an inferior army.

If your opponent spends the same amount of munitions on his own abilities and weapons you're especially going to be behind. (Most players float like crazy though.) He'll have brens, bars or ppsh. He'll have medium tanks, artillery and likely more map control.

I could see it being more of a problem in scrub vs scrub (4v4) but in a real game mode I just don't think it's a big deal because you're trading army value for the opportunity to nuke him in the late game if he retreats everything together.

I hardly call DevM a scrub... Post 1. I think in a 4v4 the team mates could help you get back in the game. 1v1 and 2v2? Nope, it's GG.

I hardly call DevM a scrub... Post 1. I think in a 4v4 the team mates could help you get back in the game. 1v1 and 2v2? Nope, it's GG.

DevM was already in a losing position long before it came down. If you're winning fights, you won't be mass retreating all your units to your hq. Just look at the minimap, vp's and resource bar in the video. It's clear he was already losing, this was the killing blow. In this case, Ostheer had +58 munitions because he had captured every fucking point on the map save one. This wasn't a remotely even game just judging by how it finished.

You can easily defeat someone with an army that is under value vs. theirs. That's what a "counter" is. It's when a unit with less resources beats another unit with higher resources, putting you at an advantage. The commander lets you spam LMG grens. That holds off infantry. You can get 2-3 AT guns since you're not spending fuel so you don't have to tech up. That holds off tanks. No matter the unit comp, this will always either beat or hold them off while using less resources. Stall until 12 CP. Then do it.

Sure, micro in fights and production/tech decision making still matter. But when we're discussing balance we have to assume both players are equally competent. Therefore army value (or more specifically, resources invested into units) is a better indication of army strength/effectiveness. It's abstract, but theorycrafting is abstract. We can't assume one player outplays the other. (And so much of this game is about outplaying your opponent) The more resources being saved up and not being spent versus your opponent spending his resources, the more field presence and combat ability he has and the more he can bully you around the map if he uses it right. (Which in turn reduces your resource income and puts you behind.)

In other words: saving up all his resources for a big bang attack is a risky strategy because if his opponent invests those same resources in units they will win. Again, assuming equal levels of play and effective decision making.

This only happens against huge newbies who blob entire army, cannot dodge strafe and make mass retreat.

On a decent level it's not that easy.

Let's put theory craft aside because it does not work in game so easily as in theory.

Bomb arrives after 10 + ~4 seconds.
So enable sound then just move your units.

Stuka Bombing Strike: Effective vs noobs and afk people.

Since we have removed the ability of building Howitzers inside the base, what is stopping us from removing the ability of using offmaps inside it ?

USF offmaps already not usable inside base.

I think this is relevant:



If the AoE is too large for a major or ambulance to pack up and escape from in the time the sound begins, then it may need a bit of tweaking.

It should have a large AoE, but like the V1, needs an ample enough time for a player to feasibly dodge.

That said, having artillery wipe even an entire army after retreat at base (especially a forward retreat position) is a coup-de-grace move that is very much apart of the game's healthy strategy. If it happens to you, start taking measures to prevent mass retreat situations in the future. Retreat points too close to the front line are notorious for bunching up units.

This only happens against huge newbies who blob entire army, cannot dodge strafe and make mass retreat.

On a decent level it's not that easy.

Let's put theory craft aside because it does not work in game so easily as in theory.

Pretty hard to dodge the strafe since it doesn't matter if the infantry is hit by the actual bullets or not, and 2-3 squads advancing from different directions can't count as a blob. Stuka Dive Bomb on a retreating unit is an example of uninteractive gameplay (can't do anything about it, only minimize losses by not mass retreating). Even if it kills only one squad, that's just bad game design (just like Air Superiority oneshotting OKW trucks without counterplay. Even if the truck is really cheap, it's still stupid). Imagine losing a vetted Ober squad just because you retreated them - even if it is 200 muni, the obers could be the thing keeping you in the game.

You can always force a retreat with Strafe run (60muni). You can recon (30muni) and then Stuka (180muni).

Or you can force a normal retreat of troops. Recon, stuka and strafe base.

I don't think the combo is as OP as much as i want consistency. Either all offmaps should be castable inside enemy base or none.

Stuka Bombing Strike: Effective vs noobs and afk people.

I love how this thread is full of pearls like this even though the OP starts with literally the best USF player in the world at the moment, and the winner of the biggest tournament ever, getting his arse handed to him by this ability.

DevM is not infallible, of course, but mass retreats happen even to him. I find the notion in this thread is that you must perform Matrix level micro at all points of the game and never retreat more than 1 squad at the time, otherwise YOU are the noob, for falling to this incredibly complex maneuver of left click commander ability -> left click target.

Who is the real noob here again?

This ability is currently too strong for cost and for the fact it has no visual warning. It is also one of the more spammed abilities in team games, where it is very difficult to know the target, and you cannot ensure that you won't get wiped unless you literally move your entire static line every time you hear the warning sound (let's even be generous and assume you can issue all the relevant commands in 20 microseconds after hearing the sound). It may take a long time to land, but the sound is not instantaneous, either, nor does it start at full volume, so especially in large battles it is easy to lose a lot to it.

Literally nobody complained that it was too expensive or its AoE too weak before. But suddenly it is okay now? So you are saying it was underpowered before? Which is it? It can't be both.

This change is biting me in the ass right now. Stuka Dive Bomb ninja buff has been for the most part unknown until recent weeks where it has become the new meta.

Dedicated munitions supply drops + Stuka Dive Bomb spam dude in every axis team.

Railway, 240mm, Stuka Dive Bomb and any other kind of high damage offmap ability. As others suggested just forbid using it on base sector. Since Howitzer building in the base sector was removed there is no more reason to target the base sector. Why using stuka dive bomb on base sector when 240mm is prohibited? Just be fair and do this for all.

Especially in 3vs3 and 4vs4 there so much going on at he same time, that you can get distracted elsewhere. In addition a mass retreat is not that rare in a big multiplayer game. Imagine you get doubled up, one player flanks you badly. In that case mass retreat is the only way to get your troops out alive.

Relic this is your fault. You let all squads flee to a tiny point in an otherwise big base sector, its your strange retreat mechanic that makes this abuse possible. Do you really want to say that its a feature? I hope not, so just prohibit such cheesy tactics. Its so easy to change it. Thanks.