grenadier/panzergrenadier lack of survivability

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2015, 13:32 PMdrChengele

A lot of people seem to be on board for a 5 man Grenadier squad. I think this would completely change the identity of the squad. At the moment Grens are squishy and are supposed to be squishy. It's their shtick. That is why they are the cheapest mainline inf (in addition to cons), have long-range DPS profile, long-range abilities, and a long-range upgrade.

After years of back and forth, it can be said that the early game infantry matchups of all factions (except Brits who are still oscillating between UP and OP units, overbuffs and overnerfs) are more or less in the right spot. If you overturn years of finetuning you better have a damn good way to do it.

That battle phase 3 suggestion is the best of them all. Doesn't affect early game, helps with those late game wipes to a lucky tank shots.

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2015, 13:32 PMdrChengele

...

That battle phase 3 suggestion is the best of them all. Doesn't affect early game, helps with those late game wipes to a lucky tank shots.

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2015, 13:12 PMPanzerschützen

You liked it, didn't you?

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2015, 18:40 PMSikko

I also like this idea best.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 14:24 PMJunaid

+1, add in 5th man at BP3. Should keep early game balance as is and compensate for grens poorer late game veterancy and survivability (compared to other core infantry).

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 14:31 PMEsxile

It is already compensate by better later game tanks.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 14:37 PMBananenheld

So True especially factions didnt get homoginizated at all.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 14:31 PMEsxile

It is already compensate by better later game tanks.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 16:19 PMJunaid

To be fair, I'm not 100% sure its needed per se, but the trouble is thus: I have thought about it and I've come up with 4 separate facets to this problem:

against cons, grens are balanced late-game (as in vet3 squad vs vet3) and obey the early game dynamic

against late game rifles, late game grens are not effective for cost.

against late game IS, grens are laughably bad, especially in light of the upcoming IS reinforce changes

against AoE weapons, grens 4 man composition hurts them, badly

adding in the 5th man sort of solves the last 3, but wrecks the first

Jump back to quoted post11 Oct 2015, 14:53 PMAppleseed

well Oorah don't complete negate the german defense, smoke does, i am ok with shock have smoke as it is expansive and non spammable unit, however rifleman can be spammed also their smoke have super long range and huge area effect, so they can spam their smoke nade, one game I was dig in with OKW, the area cover with 3 bunkers 2 HMG, flak HQ, and a pak 43 and a panther, USF rifle blob just rush in and used 3 smoke completely cover their path and run in nade the pak43 to decrew it then attack ground with bazooka and killed flak HQ before smoke is gone, then they rush their 2 jackson to force off my panther. i don't know what i can do to stop rifle blob rush heavy defence position and smoke everything and kill every defense structure to with bazooka attack ground, bunker, HMG, Flak are all anti blob and it was complete useless against rifle blob.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 16:57 PMAngryKitten465

Well did you have any infantry there? From what you wrote, it doesn't seem like it haha.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 16:14 PMJunaid

That was true before the advent of UKF.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 20:29 PMFiresparks

First of all, the british "pay" for that 5th men by having a vastly overpriced squad in the beginning.

In no way are the tommies worth 35 mp per man, maybe 30 mp per men. Even the balanced preview only lower their reinforcement cost, not the squad purchase price.

This means that the british are paying for a 5 men squad in the beginning for a 4 men squad.

the wehr doesn't have this mechanic in place. If you want the wehr to get a 5th man, then you would need to redesign the squad for a 5 man or make the grenadier cost 300-280 mp.