grenadier/panzergrenadier lack of survivability

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:11 PMBananenheld

?? Of Course a WELL timed rifle nade will have effect. Thats the point behind well timed. Did i mention well timed ones or the General use? Look it up before u tryhard with your passive flamin'.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:07 PMMuxsus

Grens have the best infantry snare (having the most range and pen), best (arguably) core infantry grenade, and an lmg upgrade, all for zero cost since you don't have to sidetech the upgrades. They don't really need to be the best squad in terms of raw combat effectiveness. Ask any Sov player if he wants to trade Cons for Grens and he will say yes, unless ppsh doctrine. It's the utility of Grens that makes them valuable, not their glorious lmg blobs of the past.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:17 PMBurts

What the hell is a "general use" and "a well timed grenade" You made no distinction in your post, and any "general use" greande must be well timed or it will obviously be dodged. But this still doesn't change that rifle nades are the best nades in the game and are of course also require no research.


Like seriously, buffing grens is the last thing this game needs right now. Nerf allied infantry if you want, but do not buff grens.


Oh and btw you dont need to rely on grens vs USF or UKF. Snipers have always been the counter to them, and that didin't change.


I'm not even talking about the insane combination of command tank + LMG gren blob making your LMG blob essentially unstopabble or CAS which allows you to easily outspam your opponent by making a huge LMG blob after 3CPs.

I don't see the problem of rifles or IS outscaling grens. IS are a bit too cheap for 28mp though.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:31 PMBananenheld

Well timed=Distract your enemy and nade which is not possible when only a HandFul of units are fighting since the enemy wont sleep and will pay attention to these Small skirmishes.but hey since u mention op gren blobs i think we dont need to Argument anymore. Everyone has their oppions

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:34 PMBurts

OP gren blobs? Where did i mention that. You were the one that seems to insist that grens are terrible and need buffs.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 13:20 PMJohnnyB

Relief infantry is not grenadiers.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:50 PMBananenheld

"I'm not even talking about the insane combination of command tank + LMG gren blob making your LMG blob essentially unstopabble"

Using adjectives like "INSANE combination" combined with "making your LMG blob essentially UNSTOPABBLE" makes it look like gren blobs are insane and almost unstopabble, ergo overpowered.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 17:17 PMBananenheld

I will abuse the shit out of this then when im back home, Thanks for the tip (serious here)

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 20:30 PMelchino7

Seriouslee ?

Show Spoiler

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 23:00 PMsquippy

I wasn't initially sympathetic to the idea that was a problem here, as Wehr have had small squad sizes all the way back to CoH1. CoH2 was just keeping with the established standard that had already worked, so there shouldn't be a problem.

But now it occurs to me that there may well be a problem because of the changes to the veterancy system. Where in CoH1 it wasn't such a big deal to have a squad wiped, because their veterancy was attached to base upgrades, now it's a much more significant issue. In CoH1, your newly built squad would have the vet you have upgraded for its type, but now it's all lost.

In this light, maybe continuing the the 6:4 balance in squad sizes that CoH1 established isn't such a good idea. But I'm not sure exactly what else to suggest doing. It was obviously intended to create the thematic effect of the Germans being outnumbered, and this would be lost if grens and pgrens went up to 5 men. Changing all the squads so the relationship is 8:6 would likely work, but it would be a major overhaul. IIRC, the Eastern Front mod for CoH1 had some 8 man squads, and it didn't seem to change things hugely, but it would still be a big deal.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2015, 16:07 PMMuxsus

Grens have the best infantry snare (having the most range and pen), best (arguably) core infantry grenade, and an lmg upgrade, all for zero cost since you don't have to sidetech the upgrades. They don't really need to be the best squad in terms of raw combat effectiveness. Ask any Sov player if he wants to trade Cons for Grens and he will say yes, unless ppsh doctrine. It's the utility of Grens that makes them valuable, not their glorious lmg blobs of the past.

Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2015, 07:27 AMBananenheld

I cant test it myself but who Wins vet 3 gren or vet 3 conscript?

Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2015, 10:11 AMNuclear Arbitor

i know grens win at long range and i'm pretty sure cons win at short.

Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2015, 10:42 AMBananenheld

So Cons Arent worse than grens like some1 stated?

Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2015, 03:40 AMdrChengele

Purchased veterancy for Wehrmacht in CoH1 was quite literally one of the most hideous, awful, and game-worsening mechanics...

Oh and for longer than two years' period the game had only defensive bonuses for practically all Wehr units (vet3 mortar crew? 25% reduced incoming damage. Wheeee!).

There was no "veterancy" because nothing was tied to the units' performance in the field.