old CoH fan, how does CoH2 compare?

see, given the optimization and the strong impression I'm getting that the designers of CoH2 are dumber than the designers of CoH1 (agree?), I really just want to know what the designers of CoH1 are doing right now.

well, my understanding is that Relic's team changed significantly post vCoH, and that OF had some different designers, which is probably why OF felt very out of touch with what made vCoH great. DoW2 also indicated a lack of understanding of what made vCoH great, since it somewhat haphazardly ported some of its core ideas and felt like softcore poor man's CoH.

Thanks for the responses, I have a few more questions:
1. Regarding p2w: are steam sales for the DLC good? And which factions have strong vanilla commanders? I usually play exclusively a single faction and dabble in the others from time to time to get a feel for their timings/style. If I could pick one of the 5 factions which has a good vanilla commander and be done with it I would be happy.

2. I played mostly PE/USF in vCoH, which factions are similar?

3. Is relic planning more factions/commanders in the future?

4. I just moved and haven't set up a gaming pc, I just have an ok laptop. I can run vCoH on medium settings at a pretty decent framerate but anything higher and it's over. Someone said it was poorly optimized, should I wait until I've bought a new rig?

1. Define "good". I've seen commanders on sale for as little as $1 USD. I would say that Ostheer or Russians have best vanilla commanders simply because they have the most variety.

Also: Regarding "pay to win" commanders. There is a system called War Spoils that randomly drops Skins, Bulletins, and Commanders for free to players at the end of games. It appears to be entirely based upon amount of time played (not if you win or how well you play). It needs updating but I can state in the year or so its been in place I've received somewhere near 10 free commander drops and even more if you count the duplicate drops of the same commander.

2. Really, there is no faction that is identical to these 2 factions, especially PE. I guess USF is somewhat close to vCoh Americans but there are major differences as well.

3. Yes. I highly suspect that new commanders will be added in sometime this month. As far as factions being added...we'll see. We just had Brits added and for the most part it has been a successful launch of the new faction (bug issues aside of course).

4. Buy the new rig IMHO. The optimization sucks unfortunately.

Well, when i see these pros/cons of coh2, i notice that a lot of pros are "simple" things that probably can be implemented in vCoh easily. Oh man, i would leave coh2 for vCoh if they add things like CoH2 UI, reverse option, vaulting, no maphack/drophack system like CoH2 and fresh playerbase, and small(!) touch of balance... Hell i would pay full price for that.

Ostheer is maybe 60% similar to Wehrmacht, the rest (even USF) are pretty different imo.

see, given the optimization and the strong impression I'm getting that the designers of CoH2 are dumber than the designers of CoH1 (agree?), I really just want to know what the designers of CoH1 are doing right now.

someone in other thread mentioned THQ trying to rush this game whilst going bankrupt made this game badly optimised and not fully "done". As in side armour was clearly intended to be in the game evident by in game description mentioning side armour specifically, but it is not in the game.

(educated and totally non-far-fetched theory): Also, if you saw some concept art for the soviets, their main HQ had three variations that it would have morphed into after choosing a "doctrine" like in vcoh. I assume they were going to be involved with some heavy fuel investment.

Because of that, I think the shallow dlc commander design was developed later in the game due to
a. relic thinking this will give the game more longevity, which it does in a way (by releasing new commanders which they don't right now).
b. THQ or SEGA made relic to do this to make more moneeeeeei.
c. or a little of both.

Another thing to note here is that the initial vast quantity of commanders that existed when the game launched are full of recycled abilities while the new commanders they released after, partisan, b4, CAS commanders are very unique relatively. the uniqueness is also same with all USF,OKW and UKF commanders.

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In terms of depth, there are a lot of different strategies you can deploy with all factions but OKW I'd say (1/5). There is no heavy fuel upgrade options which means less depth in itself, but there is enough depth nonetheless.

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so, no, I would not simply say Relic is "dumber". that is a poor choice of word.

As someone with a lot of time invested in vCoH, I'll say that most of the people I game with (a lot of vCoH players, especially in the mod community) tend to snicker a lot at CoH2. We've made CoH2 the butt of so many jokes; bugs regarding the Vickers, balance stuff like the ollllldddd KV-8, 'Glorious Heavy Battle Tonk Thing' (ISU), Leig, Konigskubel, and other abysmal balance choices, including several under the supervision of the old balance lead, PQ (who was balance lead in the mod I code for, EiRR, before we cast him out with much torch and pitchfork waving).

Tl;dr, I find vCoH has more character, better mods, better voice acting, and none of the silly shenanigans that run rampant in CoH2. I'd say stick to vCoH, but others will be quick to tell me to 'sod off, CoH2 is better, you're just stuck in your ways, CoH2 can do no wrong, etc etc etc' or somesuch. -shrug-

PQ (who was balance lead in the mod I code for, EiRR, before we cast him out with much torch and pitchfork waving).

Lol please elaborate

2. I played mostly PE/USF in vCoH, which factions are similar?

4. I just moved and haven't set up a gaming pc, I just have an ok laptop. I can run vCoH on medium settings at a pretty decent framerate but anything higher and it's over. Someone said it was poorly optimized, should I wait until I've bought a new rig?

2) While not the same, OKW is probably what comes closest to PE.

4) Definately upgrade. CoH2 is a ressource thief. And it's getting worse. I used to be able to run COH2 fine, but had to upgrade early this year to be able to continue playing.

I think why a lot of people kind of shrug off at CoH2 is because the game had a lot of expectations. When vCoH first came out, it was amazing and the gameplay was actually pretty balanced. When CoH2 came around, it's almost like Relic took 3 steps backwards and introduced a half finished game riddled with horrible glitches, terrible unit/faction design and that's not even including the balance. I still can't even open my tactical map without the game freezing for 2 seconds. Wasn't a problem in vCoH.

vCoH had a lot more options and versatility to it. I mean, you actually have a lot less options in CoH2 compared to CoH despite all these commanders, but then again... they basically cut a lot of units from the original game and just split them up into commanders. Example being the Puma and M8 Greyhound now being in specific commanders. Also, everything in CoH2 pretty much amounts to mass more of X unit to counter Y unit. Pretty much all the factions in this game follow a completely linear play style which gets pretty boring.

Played a few thousand games on vcoh, went full re...coh2! and played a few more games there.
i ONCE tried to play a vcoh game and i have to, i never, ever want to go back. So many things that definately improved (capping for instance, more destructable reverse....graphics )

The only thing that i miss is Panzerelite and its vet system (not the shared vet).
The commander tree was a llittlle more flexible, but in itself very static. You have every option at once, in coh2 you have to pick carefully and if you pick non meta commandery, you should consider your playstyle / tactic that comes with it.

To the optimization problems, well coh2 is out for 2 years and descent hardware got stronger and / or purchasable over time.

The downsize is that you either have to pay for commanders or get lucky warspoil drops. Not everyones taste...

2v2 AT player from vcoh. the only thing which REALLY sucks is the commander bullshit. i would pay 120$ for a coh2 with a similiar commander concept as vcoh. feels like alot of unused potenial

Played a few thousand games on vcoh, went full re...coh2! and played a few more games there.
i ONCE tried to play a vcoh game and i have to, i never, ever want to go back. So many things that definitely improved (capping for instance, more destructable reverse....graphics )

A lot of things changed but not necessarily improved everything. One thing in this game I think everyone can agree on as a improvement is the fact that OKW trucks don't prevent sector captures and no mainline infantry units walk in enemy territory, and both those gripes were exclusive to Brits. The only universal improvements imo is a reverse hotkey, engage vehicles only, and MGs not packing up when a targeted squad leaves the arc. Some things definitely changed for the worst such as commanders, units running in from off-map instead of coming out of the building, and getting pop capped with less units on the field in most circumstances.

And then there's changes that are really just personal preference. True sight, vaulting (I'd argue this is a downgrade but I digress), new sector capping method, MGs/Mortars dropping on retreat, different vet system, and all the vet 1 abilities are examples. Its a different way of doing things from the original game, and not necessarily worse, but none of those are clearly superior to how it was in coh1, as people have very valid reasons for liking the way it was in the original.

tl;dr Some things definitely improved, a few more things definitely took a step back, and a lot of things aren't definitively worse or better...just an alternative way of doing things.

PS: I'm not trying to argue with you, this is just another perspective for the OP

@ OP if you like 2v2 and up get the game, since team games are basically dead on coh1. If you just want to play competitive 1v1s then check back in 3-6 months.

True sight, vaulting (I'd argue this is a downgrade but I digress), new sector capping method, MGs/Mortars dropping on retreat, different vet system, and all the vet 1 abilities are examples.

Vaulting is a downgrade?

Vaulting is a downgrade?

I can't see someone thinking that either. I mean, strictly speaking, in CoH2, vaulting fences are basically like bushes that takes longer and uses more micro - they provide cover and infantry can go through them. If they replaced all the fences and walls in CoH1 with comparable bushes that slow infantry going through them a bit, it'd be fairly similar (though there'd be the weirdness of bushes everywhere, and bushes which provide heavy cover...)

I can't see someone thinking that either. I mean, strictly speaking, in CoH2, vaulting fences are basically like bushes that takes longer and uses more micro - they provide cover and infantry can go through them. If they replaced all the fences and walls in CoH1 with comparable bushes that slow infantry going through them a bit, it'd be fairly similar (though there'd be the weirdness of bushes everywhere, and bushes which provide heavy cover...)

I have no idea what you are on about. CoH1 had fences, you couldn't vault them, needing a 40 meter jog to reach a point 15 meters away was a common criticism and vaulting was an often requested feature. People were pretty happy when vaulting was confirmed in the sequel.

I have no idea what you are on about. CoH1 had fences, you couldn't vault them, needing a 40 meter jog to reach a point 15 meters away was a common criticism and vaulting was an often requested feature. People were pretty happy when vaulting was confirmed in the sequel.

Ok, I'll rephrase it.

Vaulting is like going through bushes that slow the infantry going through them a bit that requires an extra click - bushes provide cover (like fences) and can infantry can go through (like fences in CoH2, but the latter needs more clicks). Thus, I regard vaulting at a glance that a very similar thing would be able to happen in CoH1 without actually implementing vaulting, I cannot see the issue with it in gameplay terms, and an argument against vaulting is really just an argument that "infantry should not be able to move past these parts of the environment on maps" because a number of specifics of vaulting are hardly nonexistent in CoH1.

And yeah, I totally wanted vaulted too. "Why can't my doodz go over this fence to the northwest end in Semoskiy" was an very common thought in my head.

I will say as well the interface, addition of grid keys, and overall unit control is vastly improved. Going back to vCoH feels borderline archaic compared to the degree of fluidity that has been added in CoH2, especially with vehicles.

I will say as well the interface, addition of grid keys, and overall unit control is vastly improved. Going back to vCoH feels borderline archaic compared to the degree of fluidity that has been added in CoH2, especially with vehicles.

Any idea how long the concept's been used? 'Cause I remember first playing League of Legends which simply maps things to QWER and DF and wondering "How the fuck did I never see RTS-style video games do something as obvious before this"

Any idea how long the concept's been used? 'Cause I remember first playing League of Legends which simply maps things to QWER and DF and wondering "How the fuck did I never see RTS-style video games do something as obvious before this"

Probably once publishers decided to stop printing out manila card fold outs to explain hot-keys
but actually, I might do some quick research about that. You bring up an interesting point. I imagine it'll have something to do with the prevalence of MMO's and the hot bar.

Well, when i see these pros/cons of coh2, i notice that a lot of pros are "simple" things that probably can be implemented in vCoh easily. Oh man, i would leave coh2 for vCoh if they add things like CoH2 UI, reverse option, vaulting, no maphack/drophack system like CoH2 and fresh playerbase, and small(!) touch of balance... Hell i would pay full price for that.

Other than vaulting, you're smoking crack. The COH2 UI is so incredibly bad vs the original, reversing is a joke now and vehicles dance like they are having an epileptic seizure when you use reverse when in vCOH it was easy just to shift click back up.

The only problem is a lot of the player base left as is evidenced by most of the top vCOH players leaving and then coming back recently to dominate the COH2 tournament. I want COH2 to be a successful game because the genre is great but god it's such a hollow shell vs vCOH.