USF Improvised vehicle armor
Posts: 758
its no secret that the armor of the USF is very fragile when fighting against better armed and armored axis tanks. i think it would be nice if relic could implement the option for USF to have the ability to modify their armor (sandbags, logs, applique armor, etc.) in order to increase survivability odds since axis tank and anti-tank guns have at least an 80-95% guaranteed chance to hit and penetrate armor without having to worry of RNG
Posts: 1891
Repair critical allows higher survival chance if fausted/mined; and the presence of REs and vehicle crews means USF tanks can get back into the fight faster than other all other factions except maybe OKW. (But USF has numbers.)
Decrewing USF tanks saves popcap and increased income, too.
So, figure that for all the bonuses above + the power of properly used and equipped Riflemen throughout the match, USF tanks don't require extensive durability because they have other strengths that represent the United States logistical and tactical superiority during the later stages of WWII, and also to encourage a unique micro-oriented playstyle.
Posts: 35
It could mitigate the "paper tank" problem.
After a hit or couple hits the improvised armor could break off and have to pay whatever for it to be reapplied.
It'd be neat seeing Shermans and what not with logs, etc tied on.
and
REALISM
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Permanently BannedPosts: 1930
U.S. Tanks are debatably the most durable in the sense that they all have nondoc smoke and good stabs, allowing for tactics that minimize damage taken.
hardly. the smoke have a significantly delay time and require your tank to stop moving. It's meant for covering an attack, not escape.
the cromwell's raw speed also make it a better evasive tank than the sherman.
The panzer 4 have armor, the cromwell have speed and size. the sherman have neither of these.
Relic should have just increased the armour to 180 as-per the first Balance Preview, instead of increasing the penetration.
a buff in hp would be better. There's a lot of axis weapon capable of ignoring even 180 armor.
Right now the USF armors are two glass cannon trying to cover each other.
the cromwells are easily more survivable. The cromwell can easily detect and escape dangers that would have killed a sherman.
Posts: 104
U.S. Tanks are debatably the most durable in the sense that they all have nondoc smoke and good stabs, allowing for tactics that minimize damage taken.
Repair critical allows higher survival chance if fausted/mined; and the presence of REs and vehicle crews means USF tanks can get back into the fight faster than other all other factions except maybe OKW. (But USF has numbers.)
Decrewing USF tanks saves popcap and increased income, too.
So, figure that for all the bonuses above + the power of properly used and equipped Riflemen throughout the match, USF tanks don't require extensive durability because they have other strengths that represent the United States logistical and tactical superiority during the later stages of WWII, and also to encourage a unique micro-oriented playstyle.
I wouldn't bring those stats into it, the whole argument around blitz/panzer smoke/Twp/spotting scopes/crit repair is a bit too complicated to relate directly to unit survivability discussion. I'd say they all work out roughly equal
It's just a discussion about increasing investment to increase reward. Spend more resources on a tank - get a better tank, is this fair? I'd say yes if priced properly. Would it be giving USF an unfair upgrade advantage? I'd say not as Ost and okw get armoured skirts. Make the investment/utility of the upgrade give the player a reasonably balanced choice, and we'd probably see an even ratio of up armoured USF vehicles to skirted axis vehicles.
Most importantly does a problem exist at all, and does this fix it? I'd argue that in some games yes, the sherm's durability is a problem, but only the Sherman. Giving it the ability to take one more hit in the late game would be nice, and I'd be OK with paying a premium for it.
Posts: 1891
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Posts: 1216
An example is that a commander with defensive unlocks (improvised armour, or even camouflaged) would have little to no unit call-ins and a light arty off-map. Hell, it could be a USF-based community Defensive commander.
Posts: 143
USF is very fragileSeptember patch is out, update your game. They are the strongest faction in game.
Posts: 1891
September patch is out, update your game. They are the strongest faction in game.
That doesn't change the fact that their units have the lowest HP ingame. (Except Riflemen and Stuart.)
Posts: 2470
That doesn't change the fact that their units have the lowest HP ingame. (Except Riflemen and Stuart.)
i didn't know any of their units had non-standard hp
Posts: 474
Remember when people said sherman was OP? Yeah, me neither.
Posts: 1930
That doesn't change the fact that their units have the lowest HP ingame. (Except Riflemen and Stuart.)
i didn't know any of their units had non-standard hp
jackson? I think it is actually the only unit in the entire game to have 480 hp.
Their heaviest unit is also limited to the bulldozer and the E8, both of which only have 720hp.
720 hp itself is actually "non-standard". everyone else either have 640 hp or 800 hp. The US is the only faction that's stuck at 720. In practice 720hp still means 4 shots kills from a tank, but the 80 hp do make a difference against schreck.
Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
jackson? I think it is actually the only unit in the entire game to have 480 hp.
Their heaviest unit is also limited to the bulldozer and the E8, both of which only have 720hp.
720 hp itself is actually "non-standard". everyone else either have 640 hp or 800 hp. The US is the only faction that's stuck at 720. In practice 720hp still means 4 shots kills from a tank, but the 80 hp do make a difference against schreck.
All medium tanks do 160 damage (this excludes tank destroyers like the firefly, jagdtiger and jackson).
720/160=4.5 or 5 shots needed to kill from any tank or at gun, that isn't a pak43.
Posts: 1891
Outside of maybe a Tank Company or something like that this idea isn't required.
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