[AXIS] [All modes] [PIV should be on par with Ez8/t3485]

• Problem: This unit does not have a definite purpose. Is it AI? It can get destroyed by at nades, zook blobs (thanks for the price cut) while not hitting shit. Thanks to the recent recieved accuracy buffs, it has zero late game AI usability.
  
  Is it dedicated to AT? The penetration value is too low for that role and it might be only viable against t34/AEC. It can't even kite the Ez8. Is it a general purpose unit? Then it sucks balls in all departments. The cost difference between its counterparts is minimal yet the other 2 eat it like sushi. And before anyone yell that Ez8 is doctrinal, don't bother. Everyone is using that P2W doctrine right after USF got released til this day.
  
  

Solution:

• Cost adjustment: Fuel cost changed from 125 to 105. Popcap 8
  
• OR; Stats buffs with cost increase:
  Scatter changed from 7.5 to 6
  Penetration changed from 100/110/120 to 115/125/145
  Cost changed to 150F/390MP
  Additional thought; swap it with the pwerfer along with those stat buffs
  

No, it is a tank that should be slight better than normal sherman and cormwel

I want the t34/76 to be on par with a panther

Why stock tank should be on pair to a doctrinal tanks which cost more again?

Will you stop warrioring fr axis already?

I want the t34/76 to be on par with a panther

Reading comprehension

Cost changed to 150F/390MP
Additional thought; swap it with the pwerfer along with those stat buffs

[...]butt doctrinal [...]cost more

Reading comprehension

The cost difference between its counterparts is minimal yet the other 2 eat it like sushi. And before anyone yell that Ez8 is doctrinal, don't bother. Everyone is using that P2W doctrine right after USF got released til this day.

• OR; Stats buffs with cost increase:
  Scatter changed from 7.5 to 6
  Penetration changed from 100/110/120 to 115/125/145
  Cost changed to 150F/390MP
  Additional thought; swap it with the pwerfer along with those stat buffs
  

the p4 just needs a good pen buff

I think it stands more as a soft counter to everything, general all around tank, and it is fine as it is. At least for me the only faction I have had trouble using it against it is brits, but maybe it's l2p issue, on par with other factions and using a pak to babysit it is allright, good wellaround medium tank, imo.

t 34 / 76 cost 80 fuel , normal sherman cost 110 fuel and shermans is better in every way. As well as sherman and panzer 4 (panzer is better , because of cost)

Dont expect a unit that is less costly and needs no doctrine and comes sooner (it comes before t 34/85) to be on par with other units.

Both panzer 4 are fine and okw when hit vet its AI beast.


I think its fine , dont create stupid threads , we have more balance problems like this :ukf early bleed , ukf late game OP , leigt , allied infantry late game buffs [recieved accuracy is bad , change it to free DP28 and decrease to 24 MP cost of riflemen] .

why you should build as axis a tank for 150 feul if there is a panther out there?

they should just make the ostwind actually better at killing infantry than p4.

I'd vouch for an increase in pen and a slight decrease in ROF so it is more viable against heavies and doesn't dominate mediums so much.

why you should build as axis a tank for 150 feul if there is a panther out there?

Because the panther has zero AI and is a dedicated TD . The new PIV with those stats will be well worth the cost, right now it isn't worth the hefty investment.

I think its fine , dont create stupid threads

Blend some smarter sentences in your shit posts.

Because the panther has zero AI and is a dedicated TD . The new PIV with those stats will be well worth the cost, right now it isn't worth the hefty investment.


Blend some smarter sentences in your shit posts.

It nice how you ignore 90% of my post where i prove you why is this thread useless and why is panzer 4 cost effective.
The problem is effectivity of allied core infantry not tank to tank fights

720 HP would be pretty nice...

I think its fine , dont create stupid threads

its not possible in case of that person

Pz IV is fine in its role of a generalist medium tank.
Not as good as an Ostwind at AI or as good as a Stug at AT but is perfectly good.

You're trying to compare a stock unit to later-game doctrinal tanks.
T-34-85 and EZ8 are more comparable to the Panther than the Pz IV

The p4 out of all the mid game tanks is the best.
Its AI is rly good and often times hits 1-2 models without the need to switch rounds or even run them over because they suck (t-34/76)
Adjusting its stats would have a profound ripple through the tech of OST and OKW as it would have to delay the panther to make room for the p4 counters to come out and allow for a balanced match.

Honestly the p4 isnt that bad.

The OKW PIV does alright because it's got good armor to make up for it's lower health. But since the Sherman 75mm pen buff along side the shear ease at which all Allied factions can access their AT guns now the Ostheer PIV really isn't worth it compared to just a smattering of StuG's and an Ostwind because by the time your PIV hit's the field it's been countered to death.

A health increase to 720 wouldn't increase it's AI performance, just make it so it doesn't die as easy. That or maybe increase the frontal armor a little bit.

T-34-85 and EZ8 are more comparable to the Panther than the Pz IV

The Panther costs 175 fuel and has very little in the way of AI performance. It's not a generalist, and thus not really all that comparable to the T34/85 or EZ8.

I agree with OP that the P4 is useless... I think a few of top players have felt this way for a while. The P4s window of effectiveness is not worth its cost in my opinion, especially now that the British faction has been released. The P4 may come out earlier, but a good british player will survive until Comet, Churchill, or Firefly. All are non-dontrinal, and all shit on the P4. Hell, the P4s chance to pentrate a churchill front armour is 39%. Couple that with the Churchills health and the P4 is useless. Furthermore, the P4s effectiveness against other tanks like the Comet is terrible too. I remember I lost a game as OKW to some Sturmtiger member, where his comet was 1 hit away from dying, and the REAR armour of the Comet deflected a raketenwerfer shot, a panzerschrek shot, and a P4 shot (yes, all 3 deflected, shot one after another). Needless to say, the Comet got away, my foe built a second comet, and proceeded to a-move me with tanks (Comet would run up and decrew 3 raketens, force volk retreat, and kill tanks. No joke).

My solution to playing with the P4 is this: Don't build the P4. As Ostheer I've been getting Ostwind for AI, and StuG for AT. As OKW I've been getting JP4 and Ostwind. Specialist tanks seem to be way better to have. There is no more room for shitty generalized combat tanks like the P4.

• Problem: This unit does not have a definite purpose. Is it AI? It can get destroyed by at nades, zook blobs (thanks for the price cut) while not hitting shit. Thanks to the recent recieved accuracy buffs, it has zero late game AI usability.
  
  Is it dedicated to AT? The penetration value is too low for that role and it might be only viable against t34/AEC. It can't even kite the Ez8. Is it a general purpose unit? Then it sucks balls in all departments. The cost difference between its counterparts is minimal yet the other 2 eat it like sushi. And before anyone yell that Ez8 is doctrinal, don't bother. Everyone is using that P2W doctrine right after USF got released til this day.
  
  

Solution:

• Cost adjustment: Fuel cost changed from 125 to 105. Popcap 8
  
• OR; Stats buffs with cost increase:
  Scatter changed from 7.5 to 6
  Penetration changed from 100/110/120 to 115/125/145
  Cost changed to 150F/390MP
  Additional thought; swap it with the pwerfer along with those stat buffs
  

Disagree with the proposed cost changes. Its too under-priced in option A and overpriced in B.

And though I haven't had any problems with it personally, I am concerned about the numbers in the poll. Warrants more thought I'd imagine.

Everybody seems to forget on how fast a p4 can be on the field if it's rushed.

You compare it to a later game tanks, t34-85 should be compared to panther, EZ8 meh it just come far later

The P4 seems to be fine, it's not his role to go trough defence and kill everything, you need to use it as a support and at an opportuniti tank, if you see a tank with damage engine, rush in, close the distance, kill it, blitz back. You have the pak (OST) to do the at job

And come on, the p4 vet fast, you need to be carreful with it