LeIG is too effective

What if it were reworked to function like the Usf quad/okw flaktrack?

Same stats now aside from reduced range to 80' and a decent accuracy nerf (keep aoe profile change)

Remove barrage, New ability locks the leig in place, has a cast time to activate and gains increased reload speed and accuracy (like 25% and 50% or something)l penalty is double-triple pack up time

Vet one gives active hollowed rounds for 15-30 seconds on auto fire for munitions

Vet 2 is survivability buff, reduced pack time + move speed! ect

Vet 3-4 are reload, accuracy, and while locked in place increased range

Vet 5 what it is how

This would turn it into a powerful assault gun, weaker at vet 0, very strong at vet 5, and a very strong active ability that has a major drawback that makes it vulnerable to flanks/rushes/counter fire and gives the okw a unique unit instead of same indirect fire unit as everyone else

Pack Howitzer Stats :

Normal Gun -Non Heat
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 80
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 85
Max Reload = 5.2
Min Reload = 4.6
Suppression stats:
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60


Pack Howitzer with Heat :
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 160
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 300
Max Reload = 4.2
Min Reload = 3.4
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60






Leig Normal Gun :
Aoe Radius = 3
Damage = 80 (Increased by 50% at Vet 5)
Max Range = 100
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 75 (Increased by 30% at Vet 5)
Max Reload = 7.1
Min Reload = 6.5
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60

Using the Hollow Charge Ability :
Aoe Radius = 4
Damage = 80 (Increased by 50% at Vet 5)
Max Range = 100 (Vet 3 increases this by 33%)
Penetration = 200 (Increased by 30% at Vet 5)
Max Reload = 3.6
Min Reload = 2.3
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0
Nearby Suppression = 0
Suppression Radius = 0

So, yeah. The Pack Howi vet 0 is basically equivalent to the ISG if not BETTER. Look at that reload time! Less that half that of the ISG. And double the AOE as well. So faster firing and deadlier gun for USF, as opposed to... longer range for the OKW.

And people like Katitof insist with a straight face that ISG is so much better?

So, yeah. The Pack Howi vet 0 is basically equivalent to the ISG if not BETTER.

100% wider AOE. That's significant.

Pack Howitzer Stats :

Normal Gun -Non Heat
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 80
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 85
Max Reload = 5.2
Min Reload = 4.6
Suppression stats:
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60


Pack Howitzer with Heat :
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 160
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 300
Max Reload = 4.2
Min Reload = 3.4
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60






Leig Normal Gun :
Aoe Radius = 3
Damage = 80 (Increased by 50% at Vet 5)
Max Range = 100
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 75 (Increased by 30% at Vet 5)
Max Reload = 7.1
Min Reload = 6.5
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60

Using the Hollow Charge Ability :
Aoe Radius = 4
Damage = 80 (Increased by 50% at Vet 5)
Max Range = 100 (Vet 3 increases this by 33%)
Penetration = 200 (Increased by 30% at Vet 5)
Max Reload = 3.6
Min Reload = 2.3
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0
Nearby Suppression = 0
Suppression Radius = 0

I just tested out the ISG and pack howie in several games. My conclusion is they are pretty much the same given some small differences. (ISG-longer range, a bit more accurate: Pack howie- better AOE and damage)

I haven't pulled any numbers yet from the files to compare, but I will try to do that later. Of course my assessment was from what I saw and how I felt, so I do not have any hard evidence to back my conclusions.(If you have any numbers to disprove me please do)

Overall, saying one needs a nerf and the other is fine is a little silly. Maybe some slight tweaks but no outright nerf hammers.

Thank you for pulling out these numbers. I was going to later today but you beat me to it.

According to the numbers you have posted my assumptions were right! My legacy is secured! \/

Well considering the angle scatter is exactly the same and only the distance scatter is slightly different I would say that yes having an extra crew member helps since it allows you to survive counter battery fire easier. Like the ISG isn't hard to kill because of the grouping of the crew around the gun shield. But a large part of the attraction of the 120 is how survivable it is to enemy indirect.



But the direct fire aspect of support guns in this game basically forces both to operate within 75 range. Honestly I wouldn't care if it's range got cut to 75 at all.



Yes those abilities on the ISG are literal trash, you honestly think Hollow Charges which do nothing but increase pen are better than White Phos that burns off infantry health, slows them, and disables tanks main guns is worse?

And the things that affect the barrage are insanely bad because who gives a shit if you recharge faster when the recharge on the barrage is almost instant and the barrage isn't actually useful for hitting/killing regardless.

The only thing that makes the ISG better at what it's supposed to do is the Vet 5 bonus, and good fucking luck getting there.

go play the USF and tell me how OP the Pack Howitzer is and also post a replay in the process


if you dont do that then dont talk about things you dont know

imo it is irrelevant to compare all other factions vet with the okw vet system. The OKW vet5 system will always be the top of the food chain...
Well okay... the first three vet steps might work, but OKW is getting with the further two vet steps some extra cherrys

We have target tables now. If ISG is over performing against UKF and their emplacements then I'm pretty sure this can be easily fixed.

I wish people would stop trying to use target table for everything. The table target was a mess in coh1 because it was used for practically everything.

go play the USF and tell me how OP the Pack Howitzer is and also post a replay in the process


if you dont do that then dont talk about things you dont know

Dont hold your breath, im still waiting for my 1v1

go play the USF and tell me how OP the Pack Howitzer is and also post a replay in the process


if you dont do that then dont talk about things you dont know

I never said the Pack Howi was OP, it's great, but not OP (like the ISG).

Ok so Howi fires more often, has a higher blast radius and higher penetration but is somehow weaker than the Leig?

The argument Leig wiped one of my squads is hardly a good argument when Howi can do the same but more often.

go play the USF and tell me how OP the Pack Howitzer is and also post a replay in the process


if you dont do that then dont talk about things you dont know

Where in this thread has anyone said the Pack Howitzer is OP?

People have said the ISG is OP, Alex, myself, and others have replied and pointed out that it is arguably worse than the Pack Howitzer, which NOBODY says is OP (thus our whole argument), and that people only have a problem with it because of how different the British are from the Americans and Soviets, which the ISG was designed to fight against.

So, while we're on numbers, how about we use numbers for auto fire as well?
You know, the numbers that matter most, because 90% of time the weapon will be on auto fire?

ISG:
Scatter angle:
7.5
Scatter distance:
12.0
AoE radius:
4.0
AoE far:
3.0
AoE mid:
2.0
AoE near:
1.0
Reload:
Duration min:
6.5
Duration max:
7.1

Pack howi:
Scatter angle:
9.0
Scatter distance:
14.0
AoE radius:
6.0
AoE far:
4.5
AoE mid:
3.0
AoE near:
1.5
Reload:
Duration min:
6.6
Duration max:
7.2

Katitof please, don't start this nonsense. The ISG doesn't one shot squads because its AOE is insane, and if it does that is due to squad spacing.

If the squad is all bunched up even an AT gun can one shot it.

Killing 3 out of 4 guys in one hit is often good enough to wipe the squad, the last guy will go down very quickly when focus fired especially if he was already wounded.

It's 40 more MP expensive because it has an additional crewman.

that extra crewman means nothing. the LeIG have a gunshield that keeps the gunner alive, while the Pack howitzers gunners are exposed.

As soon as the Pack howitzer lose a gunner, it get stun locked. By comparsion the LeIG gunner are much more durable due to the the gun shield.

So, while we're on numbers, how about we use numbers for auto fire as well?
You know, the numbers that matter most, because 90% of time the weapon will be on auto fire?
Show Spoiler

those values are outdated. Both of the weapon have been buffed considerably.

In this game full health squads, sometimes vetted, get insta wiped on the reg just from walking in to a mine, and people are talking about a difference of 40mp between support units.

Killing 3 out of 4 guys in one hit is often good enough to wipe the squad, the last guy will go down very quickly when focus fired especially if he was already wounded.

Everything you said is true, but I am confused to how it relates to what I said earlier. I think we have a misunderstanding.

It's 40 more MP expensive because it has an additional crewman. And you can't just sit your LeiG behind a bunch of shit because both units are best used with direct LoS. Functionally they operate in the same range. And the person who said the Pack Howi has better Vet isn't wrong at all, the ISG's vet has been legit garbo since day 1.

Yeah, 40 MP more expensive because it takes 4 deaths to decrew opposed to the ISG's 3. And the Pack Howi has larger AoE (meaning more reliable suppression) and it's vet is light years ahead of the ISG's.

the pack howitzer cost 50 more mp. The pack howitzer cost 380 and the LeIG cost 330mp.

AOE Damage Profile was change from 1 /0.35 / 0.05 to 1/0.5/0.25

But its radius was reduced from 4 to 3.

Just throwing out some numbers

The problem with ISG is its barrage ability which recharges too fast between barrages. Increasing the barrage recharge time would be a good idea, in my opinion to make it more balanced. It's too effective against brits emplacements at the moment, other than that it's fine considering it's OKW's only option for indirect fire, and not being too expensive, plus the many weaknesses OKW has. (OKW needs a rework in my opinion)

+1 to increasing Barrage timer on ISG - that would eliminate a lot of the problem that Brit emplacement have against it and make it more balanced. Just bring it in line with other factions mortars or slightly less.

Comparing ISG and Pack Howie isn't that great at determining if ISG is overperforming IMO... yes they are similar units but are in different factions and used in different contexts.

USF - mobile army dependent on aggressive flanking, who can't set up static screening troops for Pack Howie to set up behind and auto fire endlessly as easy. Also more MP stressed due to Rifleman bleed making getting multiple Pack Howies harder. How often do you see a USF player with 2 Pack Howies?

OKW - Forward Trucks set up natural locations to plop ISGs at. OKW naturally tends to float MP and can more easily build 2-3 ISGs. ISG has longer auto-fire range which synergizes with OKW forward truck screening to fire at troops in a wider radius and not need to reposition.

You see how this can result in the ISG overperforming? Yes 1 vs. 1 Pack Howie can look the same or even better as a unit but the units don't exist in a vacuum. OKW can more easily screen ISGs and build more of them... when you throw in longer auto-fire range... yes the ISG can be too effective when combined with OKW as a whole.

Honestly pack howie should replace the .50 cal in the airborne commander, and in its place should be a mortar.

But this is never happening, so: nerf leig, buff howie by a hair.