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russian armor

Pak40 to T1 - it's needed.

10 Sep 2015, 17:07 PM
#21
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412



Please point to me where I called Allies OP in my thread?

Never said it, was making the point that at the moment it appears all Axis have is a Reactionary playstyle aand we can't be proactive, knowing what's coming.


Since you pulled out the historical argument, and the Ostheer is based on the 1943-1944 Wehrmacht (when they were on the defensive), they should have to react to the allied choices.
10 Sep 2015, 17:22 PM
#22
avatar of Existant
Donator 22

Posts: 284

Ost don't need a t0 AT gun when they are the only faction that has a t1 snare without the need to upgrade, research or get vet.

Grens give ost enough stopgap till paks, it's fine how it is.


Ost isn't the only faction with a snare at the start.... Soviets get a 30 muni mine, so only faction... no.
10 Sep 2015, 17:29 PM
#23
avatar of iTzDusty

Posts: 836 | Subs: 5



Ost isn't the only faction with a snare at the start.... Soviets get a 30 muni mine, so only faction... no.


Well so do okw, and tellers.

Mines are technically snares. In practice they aren't really the snare I'm talking about, which are abilities on demand.
10 Sep 2015, 17:30 PM
#24
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21



Please point to me where I called Allies OP in my thread?

Never said it, was making the point that at the moment it appears all Axis have is a Reactionary playstyle aand we can't be proactive, knowing what's coming.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At what point do the Allies need to be reacting to their opponent's gameplay as much as Axis has to react to theirs? It appears to be pretty one sided at the moment.
Playing constant CATCH-UP REACTION is destroying Axis play and it isn't L2P - we don't have the tools we need early enough to put up a good fight.
The Allies have the choices that effect the rest of the game and the mobility advantage in most areas of the game.
And with the way the QF 6 lber is working for its price, a reduction around 290-300 is warranted for the Pak 40 as well, IMHO. It's pretty high priced comparatively and it's vet1 ability needs to allow for a higher price but not its current level.
The Axis counters to the early Allied play are quickly obsolete or already easily countered themselves.

10 Sep 2015, 17:48 PM
#25
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

Its easy to kill a UC with a faust, bait with snipers and have Grens out of LOS. Then faust.

222 kills it super easy as well.
10 Sep 2015, 18:17 PM
#26
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Ost don't need a t0 AT gun when they are the only faction that has a t1 snare without the need to upgrade, research or get vet.

Grens give ost enough stopgap till paks, it's fine how it is.

1+



There is usually a zis on the field long before a 222 can arrive and btw, usually is because they know it counters the 222 specifically that is neede to REACT to their playstyle. Invalid point.

Getting a faust off on a AAHT or WASP is neigh impossible.

You're helping prove my point. the zis is available from the first building they can build. Why should it be so different for OH?


Till the new patch arrives, you are either going T1 or T2, not both, into T3. You get a 222 as a counter to T1 nor T2. You get turbo mortar with HT to counter T2.
222 is more than enough against USF (specially LT M20) or UKF.
By the time you fight an AAHT or flamer WASP you can field either a pak or a 222.
10 Sep 2015, 19:11 PM
#27
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

All we see now in game after game is the repeating cycle that Axis players are consistently REACTING to the allied playstyle. Their units have always come out earlier that force the Axis players off the map. WASP, AA HT's, early T70, early Su76, flamer scout cars, early Crusier MKII, early 70mm scout car, etc. Even late game Axis armor is a day late and a dollar short now especially vs. Brit. The Axis counters to the early Allied play are quickly obsolete or already easily countered themselves.

OKW can get a racketten right away in anticipation of these actics, but OH has to rely on soft counter or no counter Faust. The units that Racketten/Pak40 are meant to counter have an easy time of avoiding and then killing the AT, because the units the AT are trying to kill easily negate or destroy their support. Playing constant CATCH-UP REACTION is destroying Axis play and it isn't L2P - we don't have the tools we need early enough to put up a good fight. Moving the MG42 to T0 was a good step, but finish it with moving the Pak40 in its place at T1.

YES this is a game and history isn't always the desire of gaming, but it brings up a valid point. At what point do the Allies need to be reacting to their opponent's gameplay as much as Axis has to react to theirs? It appears to be pretty one sided at the moment.

And with the way the QF 6 lber is working for its price, a reduction around 290-300 is warranted for the Pak 40 as well, IMHO. It's pretty high priced comparatively and it's vet1 ability needs to allow for a higher price but not its current level.



Afraid not old chap. As ost, you're meant to spend 300 mp/50 fuel before having access to hard AT. By doing what you suggest, those resources could otherwise go towards more units from T1 which would skew the early game balance towards ost.

To compensate, grens have fausts and you have ready access to the mg42 which can hurt light vehicles. Admittedly its more defensive, but thats how ost is MEANT to be played.

Regarding the AAHT; the USF player has to spend 100 fuel to get it out against you merely spending 50 fuel to access the counter (Not counting mp costs cause of 'free' USF officers), and again, you're meant to tech up by 5 min mark. AAHT is NOT supposed to be countered by grens only.

Admittedly the WASP is horrendously OP but thats a WASP issue, not ostheer.

Comparing to OKW is wrong because OKW infantry dont have a cheap anti-light vehicle option early game so they get raks.
10 Sep 2015, 19:23 PM
#28
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
Make shreks free while you're at it

No
10 Sep 2015, 19:34 PM
#29
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 466

All we see now in game after game is the repeating cycle that Axis players are consistently REACTING to the allied playstyle. Their units have always come out earlier that force the Axis players off the map. WASP, AA HT's, early T70, early Su76, flamer scout cars, early Crusier MKII, early 70mm scout car, etc. Even late game Axis armor is a day late and a dollar short now especially vs. Brit. The Axis counters to the early Allied play are quickly obsolete or already easily countered themselves.



USF dont have no AT gun in t0 :foreveralone:
im going to tell u what every axis player says

FLANK :romeoMug:
10 Sep 2015, 19:49 PM
#30
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 139

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2015, 19:34 PMDAZ187


USF dont have no AT gun in t0 :foreveralone:
im going to tell u what every axis player says

FLANK :romeoMug:


you are forgetting the part where they say use smoke and l2p
10 Sep 2015, 19:53 PM
#31
avatar of doitNL

Posts: 3

This is how I look at your propasal
10 Sep 2015, 20:00 PM
#32
avatar of F1sh

Posts: 521

10 Sep 2015, 20:08 PM
#33
avatar of Jonky

Posts: 118

I agree with OP. It is very hard to play axis in my opinion, and even what he says is not going to cut it in response to how OP the Brits (and allies in general) are against both factions. There really is only one way to balance things:

Move all Ostheer units to T1

It's really unfair to not have the counters you need readily available. Ostheer struggles without having all it's units available. As we repeatedly say: this is a combined arms game!? How can I play combined arms if all my units are not readily available to me?!?! Ostheer in particular is about combined arms and Ostheer players never blob, the army just doesn't have the capacity; so this is important and would really benefit the faction as a whole.

Remove all teching beyond BP1, put all units into T1 building. This will improve combined arms play and allow Ostheer to better counter these OP shock unit plays with the proper application of appropriate units.

10 Sep 2015, 20:30 PM
#34
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

10 Sep 2015, 21:50 PM
#35
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

actually, each faction needs light AT gun in HQ-T1 structure :snfAmi:


USF: 37mm M3
UKF: QF 2Pdr
GER: Pak 38
RUS: M-42
10 Sep 2015, 22:29 PM
#36
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2015, 20:08 PMJonky
I agree with OP. It is very hard to play axis in my opinion, and even what he says is not going to cut it in response to how OP the Brits (and allies in general) are against both factions. There really is only one way to balance things:

Move all Ostheer units to T1

It's really unfair to not have the counters you need readily available. Ostheer struggles without having all it's units available. As we repeatedly say: this is a combined arms game!? How can I play combined arms if all my units are not readily available to me?!?! Ostheer in particular is about combined arms and Ostheer players never blob, the army just doesn't have the capacity; so this is important and would really benefit the faction as a whole.

Remove all teching beyond BP1, put all units into T1 building. This will improve combined arms play and allow Ostheer to better counter these OP shock unit plays with the proper application of appropriate units.



On top of this. All allied tanks are so spammable. Axis fuel caches should be 50 mp and provide +5 fuel.
10 Sep 2015, 22:32 PM
#37
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

Honestly why not.

If you get it too early and don't have enough support I'll just take it from you anyway.

Switch pak with sniper.
11 Sep 2015, 01:52 AM
#38
avatar of Jaedrik

Posts: 446 | Subs: 2

actually, each faction needs light AT gun in HQ-T1 structure :snfAmi:

Yes pls
I want to use that dinky Soviet AT gun from defensive commander outside of modded games :foreveralone:
11 Sep 2015, 02:23 AM
#39
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2015, 01:52 AMJaedrik

Yes pls
I want to use that dinky Soviet AT gun from defensive commander outside of modded games :foreveralone:


it's actually a really good counter to lusch and that's about all. you can't rush lusch as fast anymore though so it's back to being shit.
11 Sep 2015, 02:24 AM
#40
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Switch pak with sniper.


This isn't the worst idea, but I think the anti-sniper cars will do enough.
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