Is the AVRE OP or do I just think it's OP because...

The problem with the churchills is the immense health pool for a rather low price.

1600 is too much. 1400 is too much either. I don't get why units, although the cost less than 200 fuel get this immense health pool. The amount of resources you need to counter it is too high and takes too much popcap compared what the churchills cost and take for popcap.

My thoughts exactly.

I also think it should have a longer reload. Its shot is actually sort of avoidable - once you know its rythm for reload, but it's too hard to get into position with the counters before it obliterates everything next shot.

AVRE is slower then ST. It got better acceleration, but is considerably slower.

The AVRE has double the acceleration and only slightly less max speed so no, this isn't remotely true. When your trying to escape or manuver acceleration beats max speed all day every day (due to pathing mostly).

And AVRE is limited to 1 while it possible to have multiple ST from tossing grenade to kill crew of your own ST while critical repairs ability active.

It's almost like the decrewing mechanic is awful.

EDIT: In all reality the ST is a garbage now with the giant nerf to it's AoE profile and the fact it's stuck in the shittiest most buggy commander to ever grace this earth so eh.

The AVRE has double the acceleration and only slightly less max speed so no, this isn't remotely true. When your trying to escape or manuver acceleration beats max speed all day every day (due to pathing mostly).

We've been there, you have used word "slightly" instead of "considerably" again.

EDIT: In all reality the ST is a garbage now with the giant nerf to it's AoE profile and the fact it's stuck in the shittiest most buggy commander to ever grace this earth so eh.

Saying such hyperbole is one of the reasons it is hard to take you seriously. Remember its balance, its never personal.

Also quick reminder Katitof was right before, is right now.

Also quick question why would the ST ever be exposed to gun fire? Since it can shoot beyond sight range through obstacles? Surely, its acceleration could be 0 and it would still escape.

The AVRE Chruschill is also faster and more maneuverable than the Sturmtiger, correct?

I had a 3/4 health Panther firing at one and we played this game of chicken for 2 min where he chased my Panther around with me trying to stay away from his one wipe-ability. After 2 min. He disengaged at only half-health, was ridiculous and hilarious how this unit just chases everything away in fear of insta-wipe.

Relic remove this stupid one-hit KO shit.

+1

We've been there, you have used word "slightly" instead of "considerably" again.

Again, max speed is often irrelevant due to pathing making attaining it rare. The AVRE has a distinct mobility advantage because 1. It's not an assault gun and 2. Acceleration > Max speed.

Saying such hyperbole is one of the reasons it is hard to take you seriously. Remember its balance, its never personal.

They "accidentally" reverted it's AoE at far to the old .05 instead of .3, giving a huge nerf to it's ability to actually kill things in it's blast. It's not hyperbole; it's facts.

Also quick reminder Katitof was right before, is right now.

Right about what? The Sturmtiger has more max speed but horrible acceleration and pathing meaning in the long run the larger max speed means nothing.

Also quick question why would the ST ever be exposed to gun fire? Since it can shoot beyond sight range through obstacles? Surely, its acceleration could be 0 and it would still escape.

Because there are lots of open maps and not every enemy player forgets recon and scouting units exist? Never had someone go deep with a Cromwell or T34?

Their HP really should have been capped at 1280....

Are we seriously still going Sturmtiger is OK and AVRE is not route?
That's just straight BS and bias.

If you think ST is OK then you have absolutely no right to complain about AVRE as the basic philosophy behind these units is the same. They're not identical by any means but they serve the same purpose and have the same goals. The way they achieve their goals is different though but it was accounted for with design. That's why one is slow and bulky and the other one has range advantage and can shoot through objects.

My personal thought is to remove them from the game.

But since they won't be they are fine. If you get hit by a AVRE then you must be approaching 0APM.

Getting hit by a sturmtiger is more forgiveable but not really after the first shot.

Both are L2P issues with the sturmtiger having a slight advantage. I mean, if you stand in front of an AVRE and don't move then you deserve whatever will happen.

The thing is just so damn survivable. He had 3 Paks all firing at it, and I still had time to roll up, blow one away, and reverse back into safety with most of my HP.

Sturm is a bitch to play against, but for some reason I don't see him nearly as much, and he feels more fragile.

Countering sturm with 3 zis (or more) gives the same result (or even worse) as 3 paks against AVRE. Change strat.

Countering sturm with 3 zis (or more) gives the same result (or even worse) as 3 paks against AVRE. Change strat.

Considering the The ST cannot bounce AT gun shots nearly as often as the AVRE does....

The problem with the churchills is the immense health pool for a rather low price.

1600 is too much. 1400 is too much either. I don't get why units, although the cost less than 200 fuel get this immense health pool. The amount of resources you need to counter it is too high and takes too much popcap compared what the churchills cost and take for popcap.

I don't get it either, other than Brits is the new expansion and gotta sell it.

ST is pudding, locked behind a pudding commander. Imo they should remake Elite Armor and remove ST.

Considering the The ST cannot bounce AT gun shots nearly as often as the AVRE does....

And doesn't have to get as close to them and stay as long there, with free repairs while reloading next to truck...

Considering the The ST cannot bounce AT gun shots nearly as often as the AVRE does....

Considering how the shot of ST kills more than AVRE one...

ST bounces a hell of shots from Zis too. What's your point? ST/AVRE are not supposed to be countered with pak/zis wall. The only diference is that ST can blow up jackson (which is supposed to be the counter to ST in USF army) and AVRE does not with same profile tanks on axis side.

Stinks to axis fanboysm here.

And doesn't have to get as close to them and stay as long there, with free repairs while reloading next to truck...

Targeting AT guns with the ST became a bad idea back when they removed the ability for the ST to kill the gun, so AT guns have been the go to counter against the ST for a while, especially since it doesn't really get vet from killing the crew.

Considering how the shot of ST kills more than AVRE one...

No it doesn't, the AoE of the AVRE and ST for killing infantry is almost exactly the same.

ST bounces a hell of shots from Zis too.

At max range the ST has the change to bounce a ZiS gun shot only 19% of the time. At mid range it's 14% and close it's 10% so no the ST does not bounce a hell of a lot of ZiS gun shots.

What's your point? ST/AVRE are not supposed to be countered with pak/zis wall.

Ever since the removed the ability for the ST to destroy the actual gun ZiS wall's have been the most efficient counter.

The only diference is that ST can blow up jackson (which is supposed to be the counter to ST in USF army)

Except the much smaller AoE means you need to land a direct hit, easier said than done.

and AVRE does not with same profile tanks on axis side.

The AVRE is much easier to use, sure it might not be able to pull off 1 shots against tanks but you don't need to baby sit it as much and the ST has to get lucky multiple times to kill enough enemy tanks to pay for itself. With the OKW fuel penalty is worth the equivalent of 242 allied fuel.


EDIT: For reference the ST has a infantry 1 shot radius of up to 6, the AVRE has a 1 shot radius of up to 6.75

Ugh I hate the premise of both units, I wouldn't mind at all if they were both nerfed to oblivion and delegated to compstomp/novelty unit status. No idea why it matters which one is better by the way, the mechanic itself is awful for a game that is suppose to reward unit preservation.

OKW fuel penalty is 33%. 160 x .33 =52 So a sturmtiger is 210 fuel not 240. Unless they upped the cost?

They are both priced to come out at the same time when you factor in fuel cost and CP requirements from my guesstimation.

Are we protecting AVRE on this thread ?

a HP nerf for the AVRE/churchills on KT,JT and elefant level is more than enough. No idea why they decreased the avre damage as well. Easy to avoid. Keep moving or get close to the avre.

OKW fuel penalty is 33%. 160 x .33 =52 So a sturmtiger is 210 fuel not 240. Unless they upped the cost?

They are both priced to come out at the same time when you factor in fuel cost and CP requirements from my guesstimation.

OKW gets 66% fuel income so the formula is 160/.66