Why brits are so lame in 1v1

they just simply don't have counter to early sniper or 222's and also their economy just asks to rage quit.

I'll start with tommies, these guys are nothing better than grens which costs and reinforce at lower cost, 4 guys in squad means that sniper will wipe them in few seconds, had a game where my tommies just rushed sniper and before i reached him i lost 3 guys, nowadays a sniper start vs brits is a new meta.

Vickers, for me it's the only good unit in early, getting 2 or 3 of those and secure some map, maybe they dont pin as good as other MG's but at vet one they gain range increase (says that in building but that's false, you just must get vet 1 being in building) also their reinforce is like 22

Bren carrier is like the worst unit the the game before they get flamer, i dont understand what relic was thinking with vet 1 self repair ability, it's completely impossible to vet up without getting any of the upgrades, one faust takes like 60% of HP, kinda hard to kill it with normal rifles but still if it gets fausted early then you must wait for god damn engineers to repair which is around 5-6 min

British sniper is somehow bugged or this unit is retarded, their camo fucks up in yellow cover or something because i had one in yellow and got sniped, their camo is so lame comparing it to ostheer camo, you got revealed like 1 sec being out of cover, ost sniper has like 3 second or something

Tanks - too late, too hard to get those thanks to british economy, none of these are somewhat versatile, good vs tanks and infantry, looks like only comet is viable but that's late game unit, brits really lack a light tank or some armored vehicle, AEC doesnt count because it's weak, it can barely kill puma

Now why brits are so lame? when they're facing ostheer and they get sniper like one of the first units then we are nearly pushed back to base, getting tommies or bren is a waste of MP, they cant fight sniper, too much MP bleed and bren gets fausted early (ost has muni for faust at like 2 mins) but even tho, ostheer can get 222 before we get any AT which is impossible to counter with any unit except AT gun, i really had hope that bren LMG upgrade had AP rounds, sadly Relic wanted to give them some suppression fire, like it would be ever used.

how i'd fix them - brits need cheaper infantry, and reinforce for sure, infantry in bren carrier must have option to fire out of it, like it is with M3, M5 types, i dont see a god damn reason why they wouldn't fire, what next brits need is AT rifles, at least weapon rack or simple tommie upgrade, brits really lack stuff to counter early vehicles. Bren carrier must get self repair instantly, not gained with vet and what i desire most - some light tank like Stuart

+1

Vickers, for me it's the only good unit in early, getting 2 or 3 of those and secure some map, maybe they dont pin as good as other MG's but at vet one they gain range increase (says that in building but that's false, you just must get vet 1 being in building) also their reinforce is like 22

clarification here but are you saying they don't get the range increase unless they vet in the building or are you saying they only benefit from a vet 1 range increase inside buildings? (i have no idea what their vet bonuses are yet)

vet 1 increases range in buildings (thats what description says) but when you vet up your vickers in building you'll get perma bonus, watch some reps, people got insane range with vickers

You're always outnumbered.

this faction design worked well in vCoH, with the way resources were distributed, and the brits unique system. You didn't necessarily have to divide your forces, and could actually consolidate over a competitive section of ground which gave enough income to eventually catch up to your opponents income/army composition.

At least gauging from the alpha, you're on the back foot from the get go, and pray you hold on long enough to get some degree of shock value from a unit.

One of the commanders has an AT Infantry Section you can call in for 300MP. That can help deter the 222 and Puma.

With the snipers, I agree. I was watching the game where you put your sniper in medium cover (a bush) and with hold fire. You attempted to bait their sniper but all the while they knew you were there because the Scotsman wasn't camouflaged.

One of the commanders has an AT Infantry Section you can call in for 300MP. That can help deter the 222 and Puma.

With the snipers, I agree. I was watching the game where you put your sniper in medium cover (a bush) and with hold fire. You attempted to bait their sniper but all the while they knew you were there because the Scotsman wasn't camouflaged.

i don't want pay2win commanders, i want something non doctrinal that can be used early, brits sniper isnt counter to 222 at all, and 6 pounder can be killed by anything

+2

1 vs 1 feels like you are constantly circling the drain with MP bleed.

Bren - I can see why they don't let you fire due to Tommie's Cover Bonus maybe being OP with Bren Carrier but with moving accuracy penalty I doubt it'd be that bad. Its base gun feels really UP and for how fragile it is I'm loathe to sink munitions into it when I know its probably going to get fausted or 222-ed shortly afterwards.

Piats: Piats can go die in a fire as far as I'm concerned, if a vehicle is even slightly moving they whiff like 80% of the time it seems let alone something fast like a 222. This wouldn't be so bad if Brits had usable doctrinal snares but guess what? The only ones you get are 1. Sniper 2. AEC Tread Breaker 3. Gammon Bomb which 1. Not 100%, High MP Unit that gets easily Counter-Sniped 2. Forces you into Hammer, High Fuel Investment 3. Easy to dodge, Muni intensive, and temporary. I wasn't in Alpha but I can't imagine PIATs being this bad and making it through.

Sniper - I really like the *idea* of a light AT sniper but why is his damage vs. vehicles so bad? His ROF is absolute crap so I don't see why shots vs. vehicles doesn't do the equivalent damage of 3-4~ PTRS shots. He should be a light counter to light vehicles (and medium tanks to a degree) that forces the player to either hunt the sniper or pull back.

That being said, I REALLY want to like the Brits they are just so frustrating to play in 1vs1.

From my experience brits are ballanced vs snipers the same way as usf, they have a light unit (flamer UC like m-20) that kills it easily. Only problem is that on highest level its obviously more a soft counter than a hard counter and it is also quickly countered by heavier vehicles.

I also agree in terms of early economy: IS is too expensive, if they fix the range bug vickers will be too expensive too. As for sniper it should just get a range of buffs concerned about cloaking.

I dont agree in terms of armour. I usually go cromwell first and then the comet and it is the perfect combo, cromwell is efective against every target with long window of opportunity and then its still effective vs infantry. It is also easily rushed if you avoid AEC and bofors.

But there is also one greatly important matter: to learn to play brits it to learn to use emplacements successfully. Even in 1v1 as that is where real OP of the faction is hidden. And you can use them while rushing tanks as mortar pit has no fuel cost and 17-pounder is best build after cromwell and comet hit the field. Mortar pit is best for securing important section of the map as it multiplies firepower in long fights that ISs tend to couse and vs okw trucks with of without the help of base artillery and early cromwell. 17-pounder on the other side is extremly potent vs tanks that are the doom of usf: tiger ace and king tiger. It smashes them as fast as normal at gun does with a puma. Its also very important to move your engies or other infantry from one pit to another to maximise its firepower while it is most needed.

Maybe the Bren carried having the mg Upgrade stock(making it into a well armored kubel that could chase) as well as having a Target table for snipers would solve aloooot of problems?

brits balanced vs snipers?

USA at least can get fast M20, maybe jeep with doctrine, but what is most important, USA infantry reinforce is much lower

Tommies need to be cheaper or the upgrades and teching need to be less MP dependent, I mean 280mp per four man squad that lacks AT snares and then 300mp+Fuel on top for basic crap like grenades that people just don't buy because they are so MP starved.

Brits need to spend the most MP and fuel on upgrading their infantry but the upgrades themelves compared to other factions are meh at best, they get zero smoke with the grenades unlike USF and lack Oorah+Molos like soviets. The PIAT is useless even compared to the PTRS/Zook and you are pigeonholed into buying the 5 man squad upgrade mid game unless you want zero early map control (especially when you need T2 units ASAP).

The only positives is the mobile med kit and the double bren guns, but without any form of halftrack or ambo most of your healing will be done back at base anyway.

Why is the T3 upgrade 360mp when you basically get zero perks unlike USF/OKW apart from a mediocre base howitzer? only relic will know that one.

brits balanced vs snipers?

USA at least can get fast M20, maybe jeep with doctrine, but what is most important, USA infantry reinforce is much lower

Well maybe we didnt understand each other, I didnt mean they are ballanced, just like usf is not. I just was explaining the idea behind such "ballance".

Imo the Tommy squads and Vickers need to have a price reduction to 260 with a reinforce cost of 30. (vickers stays at 22)


OR keep 280 and just have them start with the 5 man squads and forget that upgrade with a reinforce cost of 30.

Snipers will still be effective vs them but at least it wont be as heavy of a bleed, and save fuel and MP on the 5 man upgrade.

ALOT of their endgame stuff needs toning down tho...

The brits infantry units are just too expensive. A vicker costs 20 mp more than a MG42 which kicks ass. And give the sniper a 2 sec cloack will fix the thing.

Infantry section should get a cost decrease. MP is really problematic for the brits.

British sniper is somehow bugged or this unit is retarded, their camo fucks up in yellow cover or something because i had one in yellow and got sniped, their camo is so lame comparing it to ostheer camo, you got revealed like 1 sec being out of cover, ost sniper has like 3 second or something

I explained the problem regarding the problem with british sniper earlier:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/39341/the-problem-with-brits-sniper

short version: british sniper takes 6 seconds to recloak after firing. the german sniper takes 2 seconds and the soviet sniper takes 3 seconds.

British sniper have the most elaborate looking camo in the game, but apparently it's as effective as peacock feathers.

the 2 seconds recloak time on the german sniper is fast enough to promise one safe shot in most cases. Both the soviet and british take ~2 seconds to merely aim their rifle, on top of the response time of the player. 6 seconds on the british sniper is long enough to make him vulnerable to countersnipe on the first shot.

Brits get outnumbered easily, especially against OKW.

Vanguard glider HQ really shouldn't be able to build commandos, what's the point in the commando commander like this...

Tommies need to be cheaper and have their vet bonuses slightly reduced. Right now they suck arse at the start (in cover they're 280mp grens. Outside of cover they're 280mp ostruppen) and then end up becoming rather too splendid at vet3 5men with 2 picked up guns.

Vickers K on UC needs to actually do some damage, it's trash. Base gun suffers from the M20 syndrome in which it does decent damage at point blank but you can't use that against grens so you only ever see it while abusing poor little volksgrenadiers.

Brit sniper's firing delay should be moved from aim time to cooldown so countersniping wouldn't be so painful with him.

PIAT should not be on artillery calculation (==can't roll accuracy hits, only scatter)

IS grenades shouldn't suck so much against garrisons. For that matter the research in general seems completely out of place for a single lackluster grenade.

IS moving accuracy penalty shouldn't be so drastic, it's just pathetic to have them at 25% moving accuracy to make sure that if you ever have to push, you'll fail hard.

Also if you could revert making the LEIG an arcing sniper rifle, and making mortar shells completely wreck stuff in green cover, that would be great.

British sniper ought to have the best camo, and the most range.