Brace needs a serious nerf.

Here's a simply solution, brace cannot be used when the structure is in a territory uncontrolled by the brits. Furthermore if it was in brace mode when the territory is capped, it loses its fortify effect for the remaining duration and still retains its inability to fire.

Yes because we need to switch high risk high reward ability into low risk high reward ability (talking about forward truck placement)



And if pak 43 cost 75 fuel and howitzers will cost fuel like in coh1 then yes they deserve brace.

Except you can't play any other was as OKW other than using forward truck placement because that is how the faction was designed. Your supposed to put your trucks forward and use them as jumping off points in order to maintain and constant assault because otherwise your enemy will simply overwhelm you with artillery and tanks.

Weather something costs fuel or not isn't the point, when you want to use emplacements (while not playing as Brits) you need to make the sacrifice of locking your self into a commander which locks you out of heavy late game units. Brits do not need to make this sacrifice at all and get access to emplacements with superior scaling while maintaing openness in commander choice.

Vet 5 should be available to all factions or none.

It basically already is, the new buffs to Con and Rifle veterancy will make them superior to a decent share of OKW units in scaling. Brit veterancy is almost 5 levels of vet packed into 3 as well. Iv long been an advocate of taking the British approach to OKW vet; a lot of stuff in each vet level up to 3 with high requirements to vet up rather than adding 2 more levels (which often prove to be useless).

Upgrading without the need to go back to base should be available to all factions or none.

This ability is being given to OKW because OKW is designed to not spend time in their own base. Your trucks are are your base, not your starting area. And USF is the only one that needs to equip at base, Soviets/Ost can do it in friendly territory and Brits can make FHQ's with weapon racks.

No need for side costs for nades and AT nades should be available to all factions or none.

Yes

AT only mines should be available to all factions or none.

Yes

Early game reinforing ht should be available to all factions or none.

Yes

Snipers should be available to all factions or none.

Yes

List goes on and on and on...

Yes it does, because way to many factions are artificially limited for no reason with no actual real justification or benefit. Brits get brace because ??? while all other factions need to sacrifice more while not getting to enjoy the same scaling and durability.

So what you are saying is a dull playstyle isn't really brace but static emplacements. I can agree to that.

It's only "dull" when your being forced to deal with it while not being afforded the same opportunity to benefit. If other factions could brace structures or emplacements it would create a level playing field; rather than a 1 sided one. If you want to foster competitiveness and excitement you need to make the field fair for everyone involved.

But we have them and it is a big part of the British faction. It is a core function not a flavor. And unlike OKW trucks they are required to be at the front.

They are not required; in fact. The reason why the cost so much is because Relic specifically does not want players to rely on them. This is the opposite of how OKW trucks work. You have to make OKW trucks to even gain access to your units and placing them far away from the front will destroy your own ability to project power.

So how would you do it instead? How do you prevent games turning into an arty/call-in slugfest, or the brits just never using that ability in another way?

Okay, think about it like this. The game already is an artillery slug fest. It's now basically impossible to play campy anymore as OKW and it's almost impossible for Ostheer because of the large proliferation of artillery on the battlefield. Giving brace to the other factions would help cut down on artillery wars, not make them more common.

Do nothing but remove brace would make them pretty expensive for a unit that can be countered by the Sdkfz mortar half-truck and 45 muni.

How do you think it is right now for OKW? Brits have access to non-doc howitzers that can counter trucks for 45 munitions. And the new changes to the Priest and Mortar HT (in addition to the future addition of the Callopie) will make the situation even worse.

If only snipers had a defensive mechanic that would allow them to avoid being shot at.. something that would maybe allow them to move around without exposing themselves... something like.... camo perhaps?

Also, is it so hard to wait 30 seconds for brace to wear off? It have this thing called cooldown, which makes it unable to brace again for some time.

I wonder how long will it take for utter scrubs to learn brits and stop bitching about issues that are born between whining players keyboard and chair.

you know, that's where you're wrong. it has no cooldown. and snipers (btw, this is applicable to EVERY unit), are not invulnerable to their counters.

Why? 2 ISG guns (which would be buffed in next patch) can deal with any kind of emplacements. Wehr turbo mortars is 50/50 thanks to brace.

Proposal of nerfing brace is similar to proposal of making grens and cons to have equal received accuracy. Brits emplacements in dire need of brace to be useful, without it they would be garbage none would ever build.

Also Alex is right, although OKW truck should not be able to survive direct assault (tanks and at guns), but should have good protection against off- and on- map artillery, atm its too easy to dislodge them with few clicks. Same goes for arty pieces for some extend (Pak 43 should never have brace on top of ability to shoot through shot blockers. Its just too much).

What is need to be nerfed is British trenches health.

Here's a simply solution, brace cannot be used when the structure is in a territory uncontrolled by the brits. Furthermore if it was in brace mode when the territory is capped, it loses its fortify effect for the remaining duration and still retains its inability to fire.

+1 it is a great idea. It still allows for an aggressive placed emplacement to be knocked easily, while still preventing games to go into arty-fest.

Why? 2 ISG guns (which would be buffed in next patch) can deal with any kind of emplacements. Wehr turbo mortars is 50/50 thanks to brace.

Proposal of nerfing brace is similar to proposal of making grens and cons to have equal received accuracy. Brits emplacements in dire need of brace to be useful, without it they would be garbage none would ever build.

Also Alex is right, although OKW truck should not be able to survive direct assault (tanks and at guns), but should have good protection against off- and on- map artillery, atm its too easy to dislodge them with few clicks. Same goes for arty pieces for some extend (Pak 43 should never have brace on top of ability to shoot through shot blockers. Its just too much).

What is need to be nerfed is British trenches health.

Really? I haven't found much use for British trenches on most maps with the changes to flamers. Units in Trenches seem to die very quickly from mortars and ISG as well due to the clumping of the units inside. I prefer ambient buildings myself, and even sandbags to an extent.

Then again, could just be bad RNG for me.

Really? I haven't found much use for British trenches on most maps with the changes to flamers. Units in Trenches seem to die very quickly from mortars and ISG as well due to the clumping of the units inside. I prefer ambient buildings myself, and even sandbags to an extent.

Then again, could just be bad RNG for me.

They messed up the way explosives damage world structures meaning that buildings are far, far more durable than they should be.

Also just to throw this out there the buff Brace gives you is you only take 25% normal damage (in essence all damage is multiplied by .25) and you have +5 armor. As the British emplacements have 5 armor, this +5 armor makes them very resistant to small arms in brace as well as making flamers do less damage (all flames have a pen of 2.5 for active flames and 1 for passive flames).

Buuuuuut all emplacements seem to have a received damage modifier on them (of 2) that just makes them take times two damage, now I can't tell if Brace turns this off or just helps negate it with a modifier. Regardless here's the math.

Mortar Pit: 700 health normally with times two damage has 350 health with Brace on assuming the times two modifier is not disabled it has 1400 health

Bofors: 1000 health normally with times two damage has 500 health with Brace on assuming the times two modifier is not disabled it has 2000 health

17 Pounder Pit: 900 health normally with the times two damage has 450 health with Brace on assuming the times two modifier is not disabled it has 1800 health.

Now Brace itself has a 30 second duration with a 45 second cooldown that ticks down while it's braced meaning it effective has only a 15 second cooldown. This creates a fairly interesting issue were high DPS artillery like mortars and ISG's are actually much, much more effective versus emplacements than actual static hard hitting things or abilities since every single emplacement can just tank the damage with Brace then repair in the time it takes for the ability the enemy used to recharge.

So if you want to counter emplacements rely on things that shoot fast, if you try and hope LeFH's and Stuka Zu Fuss or Sturmtiger will save the day you are in for an ugly surprise. Also comically enough the very large nerf to the Sturmtigers AoE damage modifiers and reduction in blast radius has made it so if an emplacement is more than 6 meters away from the blast zone with brace on it will only take 16 damage lol.

Emplacements in general force a player's hand into countering them in a predictable fashion, or avoiding them altogether. More often than not they are used to buy time until tech units can be fielded, and almost always require the opponent to tech specifically to counter the emplacement. Either way they promote non-engagement and a delay in gameplay, and they at best focus gameplay into a constrained region of the map.

This, is dull. And frustrating.

Just needs a cooldown timer, that way it cannot Brace to absorb artillery strikes, then immediately toggle to face rape the incoming support trying to finish it off.

You do realise brace cant be turned off until its finished don't you?

Fire a few mortars at it, wait for the brace, target anything else until brace wears off, rinse and repeat.

Plus, even in brace, flame damage murders the building, so get it to brace then charge with flamers if you have that option.

Brace is fine, it has a negative effect, it makes the building useless, you can't exactly repair it in peace either if you keep barraging it when in brace. OKW Searchlight however, nothing negative to come from that, its not even a fuel risk and it reveals cloaked enemies (My sniper was spotted and they attempted to mortar it).

Ok, I get the idea behind brace and endorse it. But today, I found that when a Bofors is in "Brace mode" a direct hit from a Stuka bomb did nothing...no damage whatsoever.

Now, I expected that it probably wouldn't kill it. But NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER from a direct bomb strike?

Kappa.....

Same applies to OKW tech structures, but I think people are in favour of them being destroyable.

A better comparison would be OKW flak emplacement, which I think needs some good buffs. OKW trucks shouldn't be on the front line fighting, with the slight exception of the FlakHQ, even then, it is more for dholding down rear territory. Brit Emplacements are too much of an investment to spam them and hold rear territory (not to mention they have no use, OKW truck can build units)

You really can't make the emplacements easier to kill without removing them entirely from the game. The most refreshing thing about brits so far is that each game is different in terms of what units and structures we see.

You do realise brace cant be turned off until its finished don't you?

Fire a few mortars at it, wait for the brace, target anything else until brace wears off, rinse and repeat.

Plus, even in brace, flame damage murders the building, so get it to brace then charge with flamers if you have that option.

Brace is fine, it has a negative effect, it makes the building useless, you can't exactly repair it in peace either if you keep barraging it when in brace. OKW Searchlight however, nothing negative to come from that, its not even a fuel risk and it reveals cloaked enemies (My sniper was spotted and they attempted to mortar it).

Flame damage is reduced by Braces damage reduction like everything else. And since it needs to also work to pen the emplacements armor.....

A better comparison would be OKW flak emplacement, which I think needs some good buffs. OKW trucks shouldn't be on the front line fighting, with the slight exception of the FlakHQ, even then, it is more for dholding down rear territory. Brit Emplacements are too much of an investment to spam them and hold rear territory (not to mention they have no use, OKW truck can build units)

OKW trucks are absolutely front line. Most maps your trucks will always be in enemy mortar range. Again it seems like people are being way to dismissive of the fact that a brace like ability that disabled the trucks benefits in return for say 50% reduced damage (not 75% like Brit Brace) would be nice.

You really can't make the emplacements easier to kill without removing them entirely from the game. The most refreshing thing about brits so far is that each game is different in terms of what units and structures we see.

This less about making killing emplacements easier, more the double standard that other factions have to make significant sacrifices while recieving less.

OKW trucks are absolutely front line. Most maps your trucks will always be in enemy mortar range. Again it seems like people are being way to dismissive of the fact that a brace like ability that disabled the trucks benefits in return for say 50% reduced damage (not 75% like Brit Brace) would be nice.

Maybe for your playstyle. But I would say the majority of games I watch OKW trucks are simply built in the base or the next territory out from it. Hardly frontline.

I think you overstate how "aggressive" OKW has to be. Being aggressive is certainly highrisk high reward but it isn't the end all be all of strategies. It isn't a hard concept. Don't want your trucks destroyed? Don't build them outside of your base. Especially with the ML20 Nerf rngJesus be praised.

There is no reason to give brace to things that do not HAVE to be built near the front line.

And as others have said, when OKW trucks cost pop cap then making them easier to defend on the frontline should be considered. (3 pios, 3 medics, 2 gunners)

This less about making killing emplacements easier, more the double standard that other factions have to make significant sacrifices while recieving less.

This is such a useless and tired argument considering the game is based around asymmetrical balance. There is tons of crap that allies have that would make Axis better and vice versa, but that doesn't mean they should get it.

Maybe for your playstyle. But I would say the majority of games I watch OKW trucks are simply built in the base or the next territory out from it. Hardly frontline.

Games you watch. Coming from someone who plays OKW at a high level, with people who play OKW at a high level. You can't afford in the current artillery meta to be passive or reactionary. You have to be proactive and aggressive. This is doubly true on the new maps for 2v2 which are very large!

Winning as OKW is about map control, you have to always make sure your depriving your enemy of resources so you can make up for the fact you will artificially be at a fuel disadvantage.

I think you overstate how "aggressive" OKW has to be. Being aggressive is certainly highrisk high reward but it isn't the end all be all of strategies. It isn't a hard concept. Don't want your trucks destroyed? Don't build them outside of your base. Especially with the ML20 Nerf rngJesus be praised.

Except you can't afford to do that. OKW isn't meant or designed to be played defensively at all. Placing trucks outside your base on the current map rotation is absolutely necessary and there are multiple maps that are so small even if you put your trucks in your own base you are still going to get bombarded.

Saying OKW should just not build it's trucks outside it's base is like saying USF should just ignore vehicle crews, soviets shouldn't reinforce past 4 men, or Brits shouldn't use cover. Yes you can do that, it's just stupid.

There is no reason to give brace to things that do not HAVE to be built near the front line.

Except you HAVE to build them close to the front line in order to maintain map control since you need to stay in the field as long as you can in order to make up for the fact you will be behind on income no matter what you do.

And as others have said, when OKW trucks cost pop cap then making them easier to defend on the frontline should be considered. (3 pios, 3 medics, 2 gunners)

Dude the whole point of brace is that it would disable those things. The reason why OKW trucks don't cost popcap is because they are not optional. Could you imagine if you were just not allowed to tech up because you were popcapped or close to?

This is such a useless and tired argument considering the game is based around asymmetrical balance. There is tons of crap that allies have that would make Axis better and vice versa, but that doesn't mean they should get it.

The game hasn't been asymmetrical in years dude. Allies have 4 man squads, Axis has 5-6 man squads. The asymmetrical balance meme is so tired and worn out at this point that it's basically a joke.

Regardless; asymmetrical balance is cancer in all it's forms. Consistency should be the end goal as it goes a long way towards encouraging more fun and less frustration. Things should just not be artificially better or worse because "asymmetrical balance". OKW has to rely on trucks far more than Brits do on emplacements (while OKW has to face far, far more artillery); and rather than nerf Brits I would simply like to see the ability to brace offered to other factions so people can widen play styles.

1. It is pretty patronizing to think I don't know who the high level players are when I watch games. I am always on the lookout for games to cast, why would I watch low level stuff. I'll be on the lookout for you sometime, but I mostly stick to watching high level players (top 10 1v1 and 2pAT)

2. It doesn't matter how they are meant to play, if how they operate in the Meta is entirely different. OKW is entirely able to camp their way into late game. Mostly map design but Langreskya is a perfect example of how strong OKW can be when they are campy, Minsk Pocket is another example where OKW can plant trucks and camp their way into late game.

3. As stated earlier, you don't HAVE to. Forward truck placement does absolutely nothing on maps like Kholodeney Ferma, Faymonville, and Langres. If you have to be aggressive with trucks, then how is jove no.1 OKW player and he never does it? I see you play a lot of 2v2, I can see where forward trucks would be more necessary on maps like Vaux, but I don't really watch a lot of 2v2 to be sure (It is hard to concentrate on everything going on).

4. I would actually be more impressed if you somehow popcapped yourself without teching up. USF gets popcap when it techs, so I don't think it is a good argument.

5. The game is still asymetrical, meme joke or not. The only thing I would like to see get brace is the pak43, and I hope it gets more meta to deal with brit tanks.

Again, forward truck placement is high risk high reward. By removing that risk it gives overall buffs to OKW that may or may not be needed, we will need to see how the meta plays out.

Ok, I get the idea behind brace and endorse it. But today, I found that when a Bofors is in "Brace mode" a direct hit from a Stuka bomb did nothing...no damage whatsoever.

Now, I expected that it probably wouldn't kill it. But NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER from a direct bomb strike?

Kappa.....

It did damage, but not much.

And thats kind of the point of brace, to prevent one shots like that at the cost of any offensive capabilities for the duration.

Anyway, brace will be here in the current form as long as multiple axis units can one shot it.

Brace should be available to all factions or none. There really isn't any justification for Brits getting extremely durable buildings for no trade off in commander choice when the other factions need to pick commanders to get much much more fragile emplacements.

Basically just make it so Brace = No actions taken by braced building (no reinforce, no repairs, ect). And before you say it yes Brit emplacements cost pop cap, so do Pak43's, ML-20's, and LefH's (as well as Flak Emplacements!) but Brit emplacements are optional were as OKW trucks are mandatory. This begs the question, why is an optional unit choice more durable than something you are required to build no exceptions.

sureeee,

then, all factions should be able to put their buildings in any part of the map, and of course came with free repairs, free flak and free healing, and of top of it, if should give a free officer as USF too....

u mad????

if you don´t see the difference between a mortar emplacement and a T2 OKW truck, the we are done here....


your opinions are a joke man...


and finally, did you tried to put your OKW truck in your base??? that way, they are moooooooore durables than brits emplacements.....OOOOH yes, you now know a new trick!!!!!

Just needs a cooldown timer, that way it cannot Brace to absorb artillery strikes, then immediately toggle to face rape the incoming support trying to finish it off.

+1

You have to be very careful as the attacker where brace is concerned. I have not had a lot of ex facing brace so its still trial and error. But in regard to Bofors, just don't go near the f*******g thing unless your in a tank. I just lost a full health gren squad by jumping into a house to get vision on a bofors thinking brace was still on and whole squad just got nuked before i could react and I was looking at the f*******g thing.

Except you can't play any other was as OKF other than using emplacements because that is how the faction was designed. Your supposed to put your emplacements forward and use them as jumping off points in order to maintain and constant assault because otherwise your enemy will simply overwhelm you with superior not MP bleeding ifantry early game

Just edited your post a bit.
Now can you finnaly see why is brace needed ?

And if you fail to win agains them with okw , try to make fast luch if he make mortar placemt and wipe hit shit left and right and ignore his emplacement until you kill it will other stuff (eg. nuke infiltration nades)
All you need to disable enemy mortar emplacement is drive with luch near it every 30 seconds (you can even repair it near mortar placement because its braced)

And if he make bofors its another win because enemy wont have armored car to hunt you down.


UKF is gettign emplacement by sacrificing tommies and/or armored car because he have to pay for em , their static , hod only part of map and can cover themselfs in exchange for incactivity for30 seconds.