About the comeback of the mortar pit...

First of all, I want to say that i'm a relic Fan since the release of dawn of war in 2004. I played every DoW title and every CoH title and they ar my favourite games of all time.
And CoH2 rightously claimed the crown! I love how many details you improved from CoH1 and how you keep on making this game even more awesome. I can feel the passion you have in your work everywhere... the sound of a sturmtiger with damaged engine or the animations of the infantry when attacking, hiding behind cover etc. are just brilliant.
Really, there is no RTS out there with such immersion, action, thrill and tactical and strategic depth. And i love this game for that! And i can't say how much i appreciate you for giving me an unseen audiovisual spectactle with hundreds of possibilities, which rewards creativity and lets me dive into uncomparable action-packed scenarios in every match, over and over again.

However, when i saw the unit loadout for the british, i felt rather disappointed seeing the comeback of one specific unit. The Unit i'm talking about is the mortar pit. I was so happy about coh2 making the already great gameplay of CoH1 even more dynamic. But the mortar Pit seems like an extreme anachronism in that regard. That Unit is actually absolutely against the basic concepts that CoH define. You basically place it somewhere and it does the rest for you. Its far range and power forces you to excessively evade and move when approaching. And even if you managed to get near to it... Its high HP, the embrace-ability and Trenches and units around will make it almost impossible to kill. It's basically a Unit without disadvantages. In my opinion a player should be rewarded when using a unit well. This unit rewards you when you don't use it. Once placed, it covers a large portion of the map and you have the time and capacity to do other things. It's almost like having an additional AI player on your side.
It's so easy to use as it almost has no disadvantages. It can be defended so easily, placed in a protected position like directly behind a garrissoned building. And it comes at the stage of a game without proper counters.

The mortar pit will lead to undynamic and campy gameplay. Something CoH2 doesn't stand for at all. People will rush to it and use it in a way which isn't very fun. Maps like Ettelbrück and Crossing in the Woods are predestined for exploiting its power.

My suggestions are:

# 1: removing it completely from the game. Instead give the UKF a usual mortar with crew like in every other faction. A Unit you have to move and protect and which can also be stolen.

# 2: making it a commander-ability. This will lead to a greater variety of gamestyles as people may want to try out different commanders. This way we may not see the mortar pit in every game
making it come much later.

# 3: making it come much later. In the lategame, one has usually the access to a lot ofunits with different purposes. it will make the matchup more balanced as you can figure out a plan to counter the pit.


With the mortar pit as it is, the midgame will be dominated by the Mortar Pit and the Attemps to destroy it. I can't see the future, but i have very much experience with RTS and especially Relic Games. When you give poeple the accsess to a low-risk, high-reward unit with high HP, far range, and enormous power, people will use it. In evry game. Over and over again and we will see a lot fewer different tactics and strategies. Whereas I can live with the 17pounder (clear category of targets, needs clear LoS and being directed), this isnt the case with the mortar pit.

Greetings from a Fan,
DonnieChan

It costs 400mp, good luck setting it up as the most manpower starved faction.

It costs 400mp, good luck setting it up as the most manpower starved faction.

If it skill wipes 2-3 squads then it's paid for itself. Also it vets up very fast because it's Relic and they forgot to up the vet cost when they upped the price.

Has it been buffed? Back in the alpha it would lose to one Ost mortar.

+1

One flame mortar from Ost Mortar Halftrack killed mine...

Brits are all about camping and they bleed so much for it due to their static nature.

Nice post, Donnie.

There were many here among us who opposed the return of the mortar pit. And personally, I would like the 17 pounder out too - or put into a Commander.

Given the general positive makeover of this army from vCoH, I feel there is a little too much residue of the turtling element.

why the fuck is everyone saying brits are manpower strave id ont see it and wtf units of brits cost less than okw and perform much better

why the fuck is everyone saying brits are manpower strave id ont see it and wtf units of brits cost less than okw and perform much better

play them first, in a 1v1.

Has it been buffed? Back in the alpha it would lose to one Ost mortar.

It was nerfed hard.

play them first, in a 1v1.

+1

Even playing the AI last night I constantly found myself devoid of MP. Constant "Okay I'm gonna place a mortar pit next... crap need to reinforce a Tommy Squad... maybe in 2 minutes... crap reinforce again". God forbid you lose a squad to a Rifle grenade or the German Turbo Mortar. It made me really scared to play against a human player who knows how to abuse the Ost. Sniper :/

35mp reinforce is no joke.

But the mortar pit, almost by default, is going to be a blight upon team games. Teammates can most certainly cushion and cover such an investment for incredible (and easy) payoffs.

It costs 400mp, good luck setting it up as the most manpower starved faction.

Commandos are 500 mp , sniper 380 , 400 mp for 2x mortar is nothing

I've been against the mortar pit since alpha. The biggest reason is because it goes against British Army design. By Relic's own admission, UKF is supposed to have the ability to play either with a mobile playstyle (hammer) or a defensive one (anvil). Forcing all players to use a static mortar just defeats the purpose of the hammer/anvil decision, since in most 1v1 games you are forced to get one as your primary counter to buildings.

My fix is to add another hammer/anvil choice in UKF T2. 100mp for each choice. 1 path gets you the mortar emplacement for 350mp (to partially offset the hammer/anvil cost). The other path gets you a mortar halftrack or infantry mortar, which will give you shorter range, but mobile fire support.

I personally enjoy playing the Brits offensively, but it is just impossible on maps like Faymonville where indirect fire support is a necessity. The mortar emplacement forces you to place troops guarding it.

I really wish they made the thing a cheap and disposable indirect weapon that could be dismantled to refund some of the cost. Different flavour of mortar still, and not a dramatic feast-or-famine sort of unit.

I've been against the mortar pit since alpha. The biggest reason is because it goes against British Army design. By Relic's own admission, UKF is supposed to have the ability to play either with a mobile playstyle (hammer) or a defensive one (anvil). Forcing all players to use a static mortar just defeats the purpose of the hammer/anvil decision, since in most 1v1 games you are forced to get one as your primary counter to buildings.

My fix is to add another hammer/anvil choice in UKF T2. 100mp for each choice. 1 path gets you the mortar emplacement for 350mp (to partially offset the hammer/anvil cost). The other path gets you a mortar halftrack or infantry mortar, which will give you shorter range, but mobile fire support.

I personally enjoy playing the Brits offensively, but it is just impossible on maps like Faymonville where indirect fire support is a necessity. The mortar emplacement forces you to place troops guarding it.

I would love to see that. I'd like hammer and anvil to remain work how they currently do, but I'd really like the T2 building to have its own equivalent. Where the hammer (or whatever it gets renamed to) would give the AEC armored car and a mobile mortar, and the anvil equivalent would get the Bofors and mortar emplacement.

I've been against the mortar pit since alpha. The biggest reason is because it goes against British Army design. By Relic's own admission, UKF is supposed to have the ability to play either with a mobile playstyle (hammer) or a defensive one (anvil). Forcing all players to use a static mortar just defeats the purpose of the hammer/anvil decision, since in most 1v1 games you are forced to get one as your primary counter to buildings.

My fix is to add another hammer/anvil choice in UKF T2. 100mp for each choice. 1 path gets you the mortar emplacement for 350mp (to partially offset the hammer/anvil cost). The other path gets you a mortar halftrack or infantry mortar, which will give you shorter range, but mobile fire support.

I personally enjoy playing the Brits offensively, but it is just impossible on maps like Faymonville where indirect fire support is a necessity. The mortar emplacement forces you to place troops guarding it.

I like it!

Mortar pit is garbage for 400 manpower.

Make an AT gun and kill it, and you're still 180 manpower ahead. No way he can hold off your push being that much manpower down.

here is a replay which shows the broken character of the morar pit:

http://www.coh2.org/replay/39472/emplacements-kill-the-game

the first (!) mortar shell killed my first gren squad. The mid was basically locked from there on. going for it with at gun wasnt possible because of all the tommies around it. also the pit counters the at gun when you're unlucky. to kill the pit i had to throw away half of my stuff

here is a replay which shows the broken character of the morar pit:

http://www.coh2.org/replay/39472/emplacements-kill-the-game

the first (!) mortar shell killed my first gren squad. The mid was basically locked from there on. going for it with at gun wasnt possible because of all the tommies around it. also the pit counters the at gun when you're unlucky. to kill the pit i had to throw away half of my stuff

Sounds a lot like attacking OKW HQs to me.

You'll adapt soon enough. Just like the allied players did.