Chruchill AVRE tank OP

Gentleman, as a dedicated allied player who has suffered through more axis abuse than I would like to admit - the AVRE does not need 1600 hit points and that large amount of armor. It's slightly ridiculous.

With that being said, I am nothing but the happiest person alive to see all the axis players crying their little eyes out. I don't know why though...the AVRE is nothing special...

...just flank it and pop smoke - noob, l2p. Hahahhahah

I'd say either reduce armour to around 210 or 220 _or_ reduce HP to 1280 for he AVRE that is.

The regular and c(r)ockodile's should not have more than IS-2 level of HP.

I really dont understand people who say that you will NEVER see a ST shoot, that it is like the sneaky ninja always coming out of the shadows.
If you dont keep your eyes peeled where the ST is at the moment, if you just sit on your defensive line, okay, you wont see it. When I play with friends and we know there could be or already is a ST on the field, it is a regular ping fest like 'ST is here, ST moves there, etc', so no surprise when it comes round to shoot.

I'd say either reduce armour to around 210 or 220 _or_ reduce HP to 1280 for he AVRE that is.

The regular and c(r)ockodile's should not have more than IS-2 level of HP.

its not just the armor its the offensive capabilites and ease of use of unit and all that for a cheap price

The sturm tiger is balanced, so the arve is fine /thread

I really dont understand people who say that you will NEVER see a ST shoot, that it is like the sneaky ninja always coming out of the shadows.
If you dont keep your eyes peeled where the ST is at the moment, if you just sit on your defensive line, okay, you wont see it. When I play with friends and we know there could be or already is a ST on the field, it is a regular ping fest like 'ST is here, ST moves there, etc', so no surprise when it comes round to shoot.

That is really stupid argument in the defense of ST.

You can also identify where mortars, artillery and super heavies are and be aware of them, doesn't prevent you from getting hit by them.

It doesn't matter if you know where the unit MIGHT BE if you can't tell if its going to shoot at you.

and still relic is nerfing sturmtiger in next patch,relic plz revert the sturmtiger changes and rework its veterancy ffs.

And

sturmtiger is a joke compared to a.v.r.e and in real life sturitger shell is much stronger and yet reclic wants to nerf it even more in the next matach by decresing its a.o.e and that not all sturtiger all 5 veterancy are joke compared to a.v.r.e all the vets of avre are relevant and op to the unit.....a vet 5 sturtiger >> avre but in game its insane....if avre remains better than sturitger in next patch m leaving coh 2 thats all gg relic i dont care just maket sturiger 230 fuel or something but make it a better unit dont insult the history behind the unit.FUCK RELIC !!

Buff SturmTiger! Nerf AVRE!

These kind of threads make me so happy This is why we Allies can't have nice things

I really dont understand people who say that you will NEVER see a ST shoot, that it is like the sneaky ninja always coming out of the shadows.
If you dont keep your eyes peeled where the ST is at the moment, if you just sit on your defensive line, okay, you wont see it. When I play with friends and we know there could be or already is a ST on the field, it is a regular ping fest like 'ST is here, ST moves there, etc', so no surprise when it comes round to shoot.

It doesn't have to be a ninja all the OKW player has to do is preposition it in range of where he can predict the allied player is going to go and wait for the trigger that tells him to fire off the strumtiger. Examples: in range of a cap point and wait for something to start the decap, range of a choke point with something providing LOS (IR HT), or it can sit behind a screen line of infantry or armor and let them fix the allied player then launch his sturmtigers rocket before the allied player knows whats going on.

its not just the armor its the offensive capabilites and ease of use of unit and all that for a cheap price

Easy of use? Lets talk about the ease of use of the strumtiger and look at the bigger picture of what is on the field when the strumtiger gets there. Strumtiger and AVRE same concept basically but with the strumtiger an OKW player has the luxury of taking a shot and retreating back to the FLAK truck building and with the mech building nearby for free repairs and protection. The Strumtiger has a larger range than the AVRE but does not reload on the move and is highly vulnerable while reloading. If the allies want to kill it they must first get past all the 100% pen AT OKW weapons that are at the forward line get to the Strumtiger and deal with the FLAK truck finishing off the allied vehicle that manage to get through the gauntlet of OKW AT weapons in its rush or the Shrek Blob from the OKW med that that is nearby. Sure you can try to arty it through the fog or war or use an off map but OKW players usually avoid these.

You can argue the AVRE can do the samething and retreat to the brit sim city but if you allowed the brit to make a sim city and get an AVRE then you deserve the punishment..... wait that sounds like OKWs simcity and turtle with a strumtiger..... funny right?

Lets look at what can counter the AVRE some that come to mind:

Teller Mines
Riegel Mines
Regular Mines
Elephant
Jadgtiger
Pak 43 - Target Weak Point - flank with armor to hit rear
Pak 40 - Target Weak Point - flank with armor to hit rear
Stug - Target Weak Point - flank with armor to hit rear
flanking and attacking rear of AVRE instead of front

The tools exist within the axis army and they have much more effective tools than the USF/Soviet/Brits. Instead of hitting the easy button (Whining and asking for a nerf) how about you use some critical thinking skills in an attempt to figure out how to deal with the AVRE.

I would dare say that now faced with a more challenging threat axis players have to think of more ways to deal with it rather than the oh let me group all my PAKs together and A move them! or let me A move my Sherk blob.

Another glorious thing is now axis players gets to feel the frustration that allied players have felt since the game first came out. They get to watch as their AT weapons (tank rounds/AT rounds/Shrek Rockets) bounce off the front of the AVRE. They get to feel what its like to have deal with a super tank that just laughs at non-doctinal AT options.

I can only dream that Relic makes mirror units for allied forces. I can only imaging the gnashing of teeth if USF had a walking stuka, CAS Commander, Super Heavy Tank Destroy with focus line of sight, Target Weak point ability on a Tank Destroyer, AP rounds for its machine guns oh the list can go on and on.

I dont see in the video an indicator that tells your ennemy when your churchill is gonna fire ( ST gun is going up ) , is there one ?

The whole tank stopping and turret aiming at you is a good indicator

I dont see in the video an indicator that tells your ennemy when your churchill is gonna fire ( ST gun is going up ) , is there one ?

the petard launcher aim up when it's about to fire. also the turret rotating at you is a pretty big clue since it's inert otherwise.

the projectile also seems to have a slower travel speed than the ST's rocket. If there's a clear line of sight between me and the AVRE I can usually dodge the Petard mortar.

I'm not here to complain about the DMG of the AVRE, but as others suspected/pointed out, the problem lies with its mobility (twice the acceleration of the ST) aswell as the high HP pool (not a problem in this case but in general).

Elefant has 1040hp (according to coh2-stats) and this ele was ~65% HP (if you pause at 29s you can clearly see it).

The problem is not only that it can escape so easily, but for the dmg it does, it reloads way too fast.

Well, apparently now they do, which would be a buff from alpha state.

They have less armor though.

They all have 280 frontal armor

They all have 280 frontal armor

So they've changed them from alpha then.

Last night i was playing soviets and i wish i saved the replay a ST hit my full hp IS2 that was vet 1 to two hits from death i know the kill shot after the sturm was a jagdp not sure if that was the only shot maybe a shrek or panther hit it was a big tank battle.

The sturm how it is is fine and so is avre. I had time to reverse but i kind of wanted to see what happened because of all the avre topics.

Ive used the avre in the trial like 10 times. Its not that great its turrent constantly will move to whatever enemy is near by and there is no hold fire button that i seen so when you want to fire at something 9 times out of 10 you have a huge warning time of when it stops and the turrent starts rotating towards the target your sending the shot at. So its really only great at taking out immobile static positions like big paks, okw trucks. Its not that fast, yeah it can get the RE speed upgrade but its not like its a blitzkreig panther. It also has very little range so i dont see the problem if you cant tank snare that thing and take it out you should play allies weve been dealing with tiger ace, kt, sturm for a long time now. Yeah it has more hp but cant do anything other than fire main gun, has bad range, and its slow as shit. It also comes out really late and it is expensive.

Some thing ive seen from using avre, it take about 3 hits to kill a okw truck, i hit a big pake with it directly and it decrwed it but did not destroy the pak itself it.

SturmTiger

Seriously. What is so unfair about having 1040 or 1280 hp on a fucking churchill that is sub 200 fuel. Like come the fuck on how does nobody else care about this shit? It already has great armor to. Its just simply retarded.

I'm not here to complain about the DMG of the AVRE, but as others suspected/pointed out, the problem lies with its mobility (twice the acceleration of the ST) aswell as the high HP pool (not a problem in this case but in general).

Elefant has 1040hp (according to coh2-stats) and this ele was ~65% HP (if you pause at 29s you can clearly see it).

The problem is not only that it can escape so easily, but for the dmg it does, it reloads way too fast.

What was the point of this video? As far as I can tell if a German player has no micro, and gets flanked, and he allows his tanks to auto target, and he let the Brit player get multiple late game armor pieces, and he kept his tanks as close together as possible, and he had no supporting infantry, and no supporting units of any kind, and did not chase down and kill a clearly weakened Brit tank...I mean seriously.

From this video I see a rather good unit killing another unit, which it still only had some percent chance of killing since it could have been deflected by the elephant armor.

Range over anything all the time.
Shooting from FoG is worth everything. Turret and faster reload wont give you same thing as FoG shoot.

I was waiting for this day to see all of those who siad Sturmtiger is ok, that AVRE is OP

Still, ST is easier to use cause enemy does not see it until is too late.

As for AVRE, it cannot shoot you from FoG.

Careful, you might hear from the Federation of Gamers (FoG clan) intellectual property attorney.

What was the point of this video? As far as I can tell if a German player has no micro, and gets flanked, and he allows his tanks to auto target, and he let the Brit player get multiple late game armor pieces, and he kept his tanks as close together as possible, and he had no supporting infantry, and no supporting units of any kind, and did not chase down and kill a clearly weakened Brit tank...I mean seriously.

From this video I see a rather good unit killing another unit, which it still only had some percent chance of killing since it could have been deflected by the elephant armor.

It's not about the bad play from the Ost player, but the ease of the churchill getting away and nvm even that, what rly irked me (in terms of gameplay) is, as Hans points out, by the time he arrived back at his army, he was already able to shoot again.

Imo the reload time (40s) is too short, it gets shortened even more(by half or something so ~20s) if you are in cover or something or one of the vet boni, can't remember right now.

But don't you find such a short cooldown on something that does 640dmg a bit ridiculous?

So reduce the AVRE to the approximate stars of Sturm HP and Armor give it manual reload, leave the damage. With that in place pretty difficult argument to change much else. A ~65% HP IS 152 would have suffered the same fate to the Sturm. I hope Axis players are ready, as how do you argue that the AVRE needs a damage reduction while defending the Sturm, especially once the HP comes down which is pretty inevitable.