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russian armor

how do you counter scavenge doctrine

26 Aug 2015, 06:40 AM
#1
avatar of jugg

Posts: 41

i see every high level OPW player always instapick this without fail and it wins them the game without any effort.
every single ability is way too overpowered and breaks 1v1 balance.

the 0cp extra salvage is way too unbalanced early game, you can get 5 min luchs with this thing, if you skip luchs you can get a panzer 4 before 10 minute mark with fuel conversion. how is this ok? who thought that was balanced.

2cp jaegers, theyre way too strong because they spawn with the g43 upgrade making them sniping monsters, at least make the g43 an upgrade, there is no soviet equivalent this early in the game, even shock troops can be kited. spawning in any ambient building unneeded as well, it just adds more frustration.

now the real killer is that dumb 3cp nades, 10 muni for what effectively is the ultimate anti stationary/building killer, there is nothing in the soviet arsenal that even comes close to this kind of power/cost tradeoff, the nades will 1 shot or 2 shot any building and stationary team. its incredible hard to stop them from doing it with 1 mg since obviously theyll be blobbed up and one volk doing a flank is plenty enough to take the building/team down.
there is absolutely 0 reason to use the normal nade over this, unless you already used it up.

then the 8cp ostwind that doesnt require any teching, just lol.

the barrage needs to be more expensive because you can just convert for muni and spam it all day.
26 Aug 2015, 06:57 AM
#2
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

26 Aug 2015, 07:40 AM
#3
avatar of RiCE

Posts: 284

  • Thorough salvage is useful only if you feed your opponent with vehicle wrecks.
  • Jaegers are jokes. They cant fight against anything alone. You can mix them with your main infantry for the random snipe kills, but they are also inaccurate as hell. The opportunity cost you pay for the on-field spawning is a waste of resource imo. This unit should not spawn in buildings, and its price should reflect it.
  • Nades are a bit cheap, but not a game changer.
  • Ostwinds neither... maybe those should be buildable after 8 CP from the flak-truck
  • I dont think you understand the meaning of resource conversion.
26 Aug 2015, 07:53 AM
#4
avatar of Hater

Posts: 493

AFAIR, ordinary salvation - 5 fuel, 'doctrinal' salvation gives you extra 15 muni and still 5 fuel (talking about wreks, not decrewed vehicles).
26 Aug 2015, 08:35 AM
#5
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

lolwut indeed

1. Scavenge perk doesn't give extra fuel. 10 Min PZ4? I suggest you play OKW more and try to get that.

2. I like Jaegers but they are hardly god mode. Snipe only procs below 75% health, if you see Jaegers make Field Infirmary a priority and keep your squads topped off; this helps a ton. They also SUCK close range; close distance and they'll run off fast. (Oorah helps with this)

3. Sounds like you are trying to camp in buildings with maxims? Inadvisable if you see Scavenge. Don't blob yourself and it won't hurt that bad... pay attention; the animation is pretty long and easy to avoid with micro. Secondly, OKW can only use it on squads who have been out of combat for a long time; if you pressure your opponent and force him to fight then the cool-down will reset and he can't use it again.

4. Ostwinds means he spent fuel on AI, much better to face than a PZ4 (IMO)! Punish him by getting T34s or Doctrinal armor and getting the armor advantage.

There, countered :)
26 Aug 2015, 09:55 AM
#6
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

Provide a replay, but it's probably L2P issue.
26 Aug 2015, 11:12 AM
#7
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

An Ostwind supported by JPIV is really frustrating to fight, and vs the USF Jaegers are hard to kill without HMGs/vehicles.

Still not OP IMO.
26 Aug 2015, 11:41 AM
#8
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

So between Scavenger and SpecOps doc, which one is better suited for building-heavy map (like Semois/Kholodny)?
26 Aug 2015, 11:43 AM
#9
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2015, 06:40 AMjugg

the 0cp extra salvage is way too unbalanced early game, you can get 5 min luchs with this thing




Luchs costs 50 Fuel + 80 Fuel (Flak HQ) + 40 Fuel (Medic or the other HQ) = 170 Fuel.

170 / 5 = 34 fuel per minute.
I don't think that you can get 34 fuel without conversion as OKW even if you own every single sector on the map. Remember the OKW fuel penalty.

What wrecks do you want to salvage in the first 5 minutes?
26 Aug 2015, 11:58 AM
#10
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Another Soviet cry thread...where is Katitof?? :D
26 Aug 2015, 12:01 PM
#11
avatar of Theodosios
Admin Red  Badge

Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7


Luchs costs 50 Fuel + 80 Fuel (Flak HQ) + 40 Fuel (Medic or the other HQ) = 170 Fuel.

170 / 5 = 34 fuel per minute.
I don't think that you can get 34 fuel without conversion as OKW even if you own every single sector on the map. Remember the OKW fuel penalty.

What wrecks do you want to salvage in the first 5 minutes?


Legit post except that OKW starts with 40 fuel already thus it's basically 170 fuel - 40 fuel = 130 fuel + fuel penalty required to build a Luchs.
26 Aug 2015, 12:04 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Another Soviet cry thread...where is Katitof?? :D

Waiting in shadows to strike with deadly accuracy at exceptional bs. :megusta:

Target acquired is the post above yours, which conveniently ignores OKW starting fuel and possible muni to fuel conversion.

Wrecks: Every single one on Rails&metal, because relic isn't known for consistency in fixing stuff.

OP is to be ignored, because he clearly lacks basic knowledge of the game, so arguing him is pointless and I'm not going after new players, unless they ask for it.
26 Aug 2015, 12:14 PM
#13
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

26 Aug 2015, 12:59 PM
#14
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

Everything people said above plus an extra dose of L2P.

Also if they are converting for muni for the Scavenge arty, then they are getting very little fuel income build some vehicles and punish them for it.
26 Aug 2015, 13:55 PM
#15
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2015, 06:40 AMjugg
i see every high level OPW player always instapick this without fail and it wins them the game without any effort.
every single ability is way too overpowered and breaks 1v1 balance.

the 0cp extra salvage is way too unbalanced early game, you can get 5 min luchs with this thing, if you skip luchs you can get a panzer 4 before 10 minute mark with fuel conversion. how is this ok? who thought that was balanced.

2cp jaegers, theyre way too strong because they spawn with the g43 upgrade making them sniping monsters, at least make the g43 an upgrade, there is no soviet equivalent this early in the game, even shock troops can be kited. spawning in any ambient building unneeded as well, it just adds more frustration.

now the real killer is that dumb 3cp nades, 10 muni for what effectively is the ultimate anti stationary/building killer, there is nothing in the soviet arsenal that even comes close to this kind of power/cost tradeoff, the nades will 1 shot or 2 shot any building and stationary team. its incredible hard to stop them from doing it with 1 mg since obviously theyll be blobbed up and one volk doing a flank is plenty enough to take the building/team down.
there is absolutely 0 reason to use the normal nade over this, unless you already used it up.

then the 8cp ostwind that doesnt require any teching, just lol.

the barrage needs to be more expensive because you can just convert for muni and spam it all day.


1. They pick it because it and luftwaffe/fortifications are the only OKW commanders worth having.

2. IIRC The better salvage does NOT increase fuel from salvage only munitions (15 instead of 10, but I don't own the commander). Also, even with fuel conversion it is impossible to get a 10 minute PIV. That requires 215 fuel, and if the OKW player hold the entire map and does fuel conversion they will get around 30 fuel a minute. AKA have enough fuel after 7 minutes, but thats if you hold the entire map from 0:00 and make T3 your first upgrade.

3. Jaegars are good. But if they go Scavenge then they have no useful suppression platform, build maxims.

4. I agree, those grenades are stupid, especially since they do more damage than normal grenades. People complain that OKW has no way to clear buildings, but no other faction can clear buildings like that.

5. The Ostwind is what really makes this commander. Having it gives you a nice AI tank that scales amazingly and can fight off every light vehicle. It also gives the commander the strength in that it needs to tech only to battlegroup and get a JPIV. The commander will provide everything else through the Ostwind and JLI.

6. The barrage is good, but it is no better than any other artillery off map. If you think it is spammable what do you think of the soviet incendiary one?

So yea, it is the best commander that OKW has to offer. But it is hardly game breaking. The quad mount and SU-76 is still very effective. And the JPIV can't really fight off heavier soviet tanks. The ISU is absolutely deadly to this commander as they have no real counterplay (no snares with this commander and if you protect your flanks then nothing can get behind it.)
26 Aug 2015, 14:48 PM
#16
avatar of Silencer

Posts: 65

In 2v2s, seeing this commander is probably more related to players trying to handle the ML-20, this commander and sticking mostly with battlegroup hq.

Instead of everything in the commander being OP. :foreveralone:
26 Aug 2015, 15:24 PM
#17
avatar of J1N6666

Posts: 306

Lol... complaining about OKW in 1v1s.

delete this thread pls.
26 Aug 2015, 15:48 PM
#18
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740



Legit post except that OKW starts with 40 fuel already thus it's basically 170 fuel - 40 fuel = 130 fuel + fuel penalty required to build a Luchs.


Thanks I forgot that.
But on the other hand you have to take a look at the MP also. There is no Luchs without an inf army.
26 Aug 2015, 15:51 PM
#19
avatar of Theodosios
Admin Red  Badge

Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7



Thanks I forgot that.
But on the other hand you have to take a look at the MP also. There is no Luchs without an inf army.


Indeed.

No infantry army -> no map control -> no fuel -> no Luchs :snfPeter:
26 Aug 2015, 17:48 PM
#20
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

Moved to CoH2 Gameplay
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