USF and potential suggestions for its Design

Hi guys.

As we all know, the USF faction has become somewhat of a problem child. It has a decent to somewhat great early game, but lacks in the mid and later stages of any game. This in combination with the lesser scaling of its core infantry unit and somewhat lacking design, leaves us with a faction that has potency during the early game, but just floats around without any clear potency in the mid and late game.

Having said this, I intent to use thread as a professional feedback thread for Relic, since we know they do roam around these forums. In this thread, we can provide and discuss options for the USF faction, options that might enhance not only the faction, but also its functionality and experience. To be very clear, this thread puts focus on the USF faction within the 1v1 spectrum. Any 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 suggestions can be made elsewhere.

If you wish to contribute to this thread, please do so in the following structure:

1.The category of the problem you wish to shed light upon. This can be balance, this can be pacing, this can be gameplay mechanics, you name it.

2.Elaborate the current/ or a problem you see with or within the USF faction.

3.How do you wish to see this problem altered? What are your suggestions and how should Relic implement it?

Do not be shy, if you see a problem or have experienced a problem that is in your mind the arrow to the knee of the USF faction, do post it. Just make sure you can supply enough facts and realistic arguments that have an actual meaning and a strong and sensible grip on reality.

Let us be productive, creative and above all respectful and realistic!

Note: Biased reactions like the ones we see way to often are not to be encouraged. Do not come here and post the usual 'Axis op armor is killing this game' or '90% are in German Queue, Axis op'. This thread does not support this behavior. For example, and I mean no offense by this, The Big Red 1 is notorious for posting nothing but USF bias, these kind of posts are not tolerated and will receive request for removal

gameplay

rifle bleed

better with vet

USF have two issues:

-current pricing and performance of mid-game units discourages combined arms.

-Riflemen don't scale well enough lategame.

USF have two issues:

-current pricing and performance of mid-game units discourages combined arms.

-Riflemen don't scale well enough lategame.

your suggestion? Please state this as well

In my opinion, biggest problem about USF is how much micro they require.
RE, 3 RM, Lt, 50Cal, Cpt, Howie, 2 AT Guns, Ambulance and you already have 11 units to manage which are very easy to kill.



Add paper armor and voila.

Very potent faction but with huge amount of micro

your suggestion? Please state this as well

The .50 cal is currently bugged and underperforming for its cost, fixing these and buffing price is enough; the pack howitzer should be a 60mm mortar. The M20 ought to cost 250 MP, and the AA track should be able to fire its autocannons on the move. The ambulance should also have a faster movement speed to promote more usage of it on the front line.

The absurd cost of the Majors abilities relative to their effectiveness promotes the use of him only as a retreat point: simply making his arty cost 60 muni and his recon flight 35 would solve this.

On Rifle scaling, they ought to become literally faster with vet, not slightly better and recharging abilities quicker. On Riflemen vet I propose:

Vet 1-AT nade, M1 garand moving acc to .75 to promote flanking/mobility.

Vet 2- Recieved acc buff, cooldown buff, ability animation time decreased.

Vet 3- further recieved acc buff, reduce animation time more, and passive sprint.

Finally weapon racks are slightly underperforming.

-increase bazooka damage to 100, from 80

-increase moving acc to .75 to promote its usage as a mobile assault weapon.

Some changes:

• Fix USF Support Weapon Crew costs
  
  
• Reduce pop cap on Riflemen, Officers, significantly reduce on Ambulance
  
  
• Ambulance Auto-Heal function (how this is achieved is debatable)
  
  
• Replace Assault Engie HT with AA Cavalry Riflemen in Mechanised Commander
  
  
• Move Anti-Tank Gun to T1, Mortar to Lieutenant.
  
  
• Allow RE to build Light AT Mines, Assault Engineers to build M6 Mines
  
  
• +80HP at Sherman Vet 2, repeat at Vet 3
  
  
• M1919 Defensive Stance cannot be triggered in combat
  
  
• Bazooka reduced to 50 Mun, High penetration at close range, high accuracy at long range
  
  
• BAR reduced to 50 Mun, no further changes necessary
  
  
• M10 and M36 have 'Spotting Scopes' by default
  

Fantasy Changes: (separate list because I'm not really satisfied with them)
Show Spoiler

USF is generally spoken,a really micro dependent faction.
Great micro - strong faction
Bad micro - mediocre
If you want to buff it too much it will become in hands of really good players just batshit OP.

Reduce weapon costs
slightly better vet

I would like to see a branching upgrade in Captain tier where you choose between the Wolverine or the Pack Howitzer priced and buffed/nerfed accordingly.

give them counter to OP42 that is not smoke (bleeding lot of muny) and it is not flanking becuase it is not always viaable.

Yes im talking about mortar.

Also give them counter to well protected ostheer sniper or just decrease his rof.

Also their weapon teams need to be 5 memebers , now they die like fleas.

And make m20 come with armored skins as a counterpart for buffed upgunned ostheer scout car.

Otherwise excep paper tank , mp bleed late game , scalability and reliance to commaders they are fine

USF is generally spoken,a really micro dependent faction.
Great micro - strong faction
Bad micro - mediocre
If you want to buff it too much it will become in hands of really good players just batshit OP.

Reduce weapon costs
slightly better vet

Pretty much this, adjust some costs add some better Vet, but any base buffs on their units will result in OPness.

Pretty much this, adjust some costs add some better Vet, but any base buffs on their units will result in OPness.

.50 cal, zook, Majors abilities, ambulance, and AA track are objectively underperforming

Fantasy Changes: (separate list because I'm not really satisfied with them)

I do not see merging on REs ever happening, because there are advantages and drawbacks to using them as is (and before received accuracy going into unit size, there was one clear winner at all times for doing it, only on Guards).

Not so when the merged units are the only-technically-damages-things and cheap as hell REs.

.50 cal, zook, Majors abilities, ambulance, and AA track are objectively underperforming

Well said,objectively.
AA track has its purpose and can beat,properly microed any light vehicle
.50 cal is only 20 mp more pricey than mg42 - faster setup,good sup,dmg dont see any reason to buff
I would only like to see a small pop cap cut of Major and amb but both are good for what they do

Zook,bars 50 muni would be fine.Zooks have better AI than shrecks
maybe slight pen buff

Well said,objectively.
AA track has its purpose and can beat,properly microed any light vehicle
.50 cal is only 20 mp more pricey than mg42 - faster setup,good sup,dmg dont see any reason to buff
I would only like to see a small pop cap cut of Major and amb but both are good for what they do

Zook,bars 50 muni would be fine.Zooks have better AI than shrecks
maybe slight pen buff

.50 cal reinforce is bugged, it has focus fire so damage is bugged, and the weapon itself is destroyed quicker due to also a bug. It needs these bugs fixed and 240 mp price.

AA track must be stationary to fight light vehicles with auto cannon-this makes it only good for area denial vs light vehicles. Spending 60 fuel on this is not worth it when you can just tech captain. MG42 can also kill this vehicle, with vet 1. (?)

I'm against zook pen buff, IMO it shouldn't be at all effective vs front armor of heavier armor. It's issue is just not doing enough damage on penetrating hits. 100 damage from 80 isn't a big change, it would just require 1 to two less shots to kill things if they pen. I actually think a 50 muni BAR might be op because of its timing and muni saved on smoke.

This will be my last post.
I agree bugs should be fixed but 240mp ? cmon
Is that any kind of a problem ? As i said,the things you are mentioning are micro related,AP rounds - be careful within the range of vet 1 mg42
You go m20 then aa track for instance.
Zooks are spammable i would rather have reliable dmg than more rng.

Wasn't there a thread about that coupl'o'days ago already? As far as I remember there are only 3 problems with the faction that result in many of the symptoms people are apparently trying to fight individually, which won't work.

1. Riflemen bleed is too harsh in late game, especially since Vet lacks something to help the one and only USF main infantry to survive the multiple threads that arrive by then.

2. Where other factions simply research an unlock and/or contruct a building in order to enable another tier, USF has to call in a more or less useful unit (very subjective topic) that takes up pop, thus reducing manpower income. Coupled with point 1 this is a very serious issue.

3. Last but certainly not least, BARs themselves suck. As someone pointed out, the flamethrower is better in all cases, albeit doctrinal. The problem is, if you straight up buff BARs, it will become too strong in the "wrong" hands, like with Paras or Pathfinders. Or vetted Obers.

Some changes:

• Fix USF Support Weapon Crew costs
  
  
• Reduce pop cap on Riflemen, Officers, significantly reduce on Ambulance
  
  
• Ambulance Auto-Heal function (how this is achieved is debatable)
  
  
• Replace Assault Engie HT with AA Cavalry Riflemen in Mechanised Commander
  
  
• Move Anti-Tank Gun to T1, Mortar to Lieutenant.
  
  
• Allow RE to build Light AT Mines, Assault Engineers to build M6 Mines
  
  
• +80HP at Sherman Vet 2, repeat at Vet 3
  
  
• M1919 Defensive Stance cannot be triggered in combat
  
  
• Bazooka reduced to 50 Mun, High penetration at close range, high accuracy at long range
  
  
• BAR reduced to 50 Mun, no further changes necessary
  
  
• M10 and M36 have 'Spotting Scopes' by default
  

Fantasy Changes: (separate list because I'm not really satisfied with them)
Show Spoiler

At gun to t1? That is a tad to much in my opinion.

Wasn't there a thread about that coupl'o'days ago already? As far as I remember there are only 3 problems with the faction that result in many of the symptoms people are apparently trying to fight individually, which won't work.

1. Riflemen bleed is too harsh in late game, especially since Vet lacks something to help the one and only USF main infantry to survive the multiple threads that arrive by then.

2. Where other factions simply research an unlock and/or contruct a building in order to enable another tier, USF has to call in a more or less useful unit (very subjective topic) that takes up pop, thus reducing manpower income. Coupled with point 1 this is a very serious issue.

3. Last but certainly not least, BARs themselves suck. As someone pointed out, the flamethrower is better in all cases, albeit doctrinal. The problem is, if you straight up buff BARs, it will become too strong in the "wrong" hands, like with Paras or Pathfinders. Or vetted Obers.

Agreed

This will be my last post.
I agree bugs should be fixed but 240mp ? cmon
Is that any kind of a problem ? As i said,the things you are mentioning are micro related,AP rounds - be careful within the range of vet 1 mg42
You go m20 then aa track for instance.
Zooks are spammable i would rather have reliable dmg than more rng.

Okay, 260 MP for .50 cal is a fair compromise.

i see your point with micro-well said. I agree

Zooks is simply a difference of opinion, I can understand less rng and why you would want that, but I can also see for myself that more damage rewards flanking vehicles more and less frustrating moments.

I understand your points