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SU76 - Free Barrage

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What should there be done about the free barrage ability of the SU-76?
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Total votes: 136
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Kreatiir
20 Aug 2015, 07:37 AM
#1
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

Sup :banana:

!!! I'm talking about 2v2's or up

I've played a few games the last couple of days and I encounter a lot of SU-76 spam.
I am very happy to see the unit finally in play, but it's a bit too much of a 'counter all and push the enemy of the map' for me, when it's used together with Zis's and Maxims.

I've seen a lot of plays where there are Zis's in the back and 2 or more SU-76's in the front, barraging everything away from MG's to packs.
Counter it with a tank? Flank it ? Yes, but on certain maps like Angermeunde, Minsk pocket or other narrow maps, it becomes almost impossible to flank it.

I feel that the free barrage ability should be changed. Packs are completely useless when you get barraged every 10 seconds.
I see a lot of similar opinions when I browse this website. So I'm curious about you guys's opinions.

Go! :banana:
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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ElSlayer
20 Aug 2015, 07:40 AM
#2
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2015, 07:37 AMKreatiir
Sup :banana:

!!! I'm talking about 2v2's or up

I've played a few games the last couple of days and I encounter a lot of SU-76 spam.
I am very happy to see the unit finally in play, but it's a bit too much of a 'counter all and push the enemy of the map' for me, when it's used together with Zis's and Maxims.

I've seen a lot of plays where there are Zis's in the back and 2 or more SU-76's in the front, barraging everything away from MG's to packs.
Counter it with a tank? Flank it ? Yes, but on certain maps like Angermeunde, Minsk pocket or other narrow maps, it becomes almost impossible to flank it.

I feel that the free barrage ability should be changed. Packs are completely useless when you get barraged every 10 seconds.
I see a lot of similar opinions when I browse this website. So I'm curious about you guys's opinions.

Go! :banana:


So it is the problem with maps, not with SU-76? :foreveralone:
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Kreatiir
20 Aug 2015, 07:54 AM
#3
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

I don't think so, I think it's more clear on more narrow maps.
We also encountered this on Semoisky.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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Katitof
20 Aug 2015, 07:56 AM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2015, 07:54 AMKreatiir
We also encountered this on Semoisky.

Semo is a horrible 2v2 map, way too crowded, way too many choke points and way too campy.

Regarding SU-76 itself, it already have incomparably longer cooldown then ZiS-3 barrage, its cooldown pretty much is as long as for any other barrage vehicle obviously without similar impact or effectiveness.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ElSlayer
20 Aug 2015, 08:15 AM
#5
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Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

I'm OK with adding cost for barrage if its consistency would be raised too. That ability is pretty much hit-or-miss. Either you score a decent hit with first shot (maybe with second too if playing against slowpoke) or it will end up with zero effect.

When I use my cooldown I expect to have some results, especially if I pay for it.
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RMMLz
20 Aug 2015, 08:28 AM
#6
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

The "free barrage" concept was acceptable when SU-76 used to suck (which was not long ago). It's only use was the barrage. But now, it's a good AT platform which can be spammed relatively easy. So IMO, there should be a change, either longer cooldown or Muni price. Imagine the shitstorm if StuG had a barrage like that.

Another idea is to greatly reduce it's AI power, but increase it's damage to buildings and bunkers and also make it's barrage are smaller.

http://dadmand-art.ir/
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Mr. Someguy
20 Aug 2015, 08:54 AM
#7
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Posts: 4928

In its current state, it's not really worth Munitions or Veterancy. It's got high scatter and low radius. It's not really effective unless you use 2, and it doesn't have any shock value unless you use 3.

Plus if it gets nerfed, I admit I'd miss the beautiful sight of ZiS Batteries.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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OZtheWiZARD
20 Aug 2015, 09:20 AM
#8
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

I'm up for introducing munnition cost.
5-10 muni if it stays the same so spaming it would cost you in macro game.
Higher cost only if the ability itself were to be adjusted to reflect cost increase.
My DeviantArt gallery
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Bad_Vader
20 Aug 2015, 09:25 AM
#9
avatar of Bad_Vader

Posts: 88 | Subs: 1

I'm not.
As it stands the main reason why people are picking on the Su-76 is because of how cost effective it is at the time it arrives on the field.

2 Patches ago no one complained about how cost effective it was and the start of the nerf threads only began with the last patch so it stands to reason that the Su-76 is in itself fine, but when it arrives needs to be adjusted.

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Kreatiir
20 Aug 2015, 09:56 AM
#10
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

Interesting thoughts. Well I just think free abilities at 0 VET in general aren't a good thing (Arty is of course another something). Maybe even 5 or 10 muni's make you think about using the ability rather than just 'yeah why not barrage' cause the cooldown is rather short.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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__deleted__
20 Aug 2015, 10:32 AM
#11
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Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2015, 08:28 AMRMMLz
The "free barrage" concept was acceptable when SU-76 used to suck (which was not long ago). It's only use was the barrage. But now, it's a good AT platform which can be spammed relatively easy. So IMO, there should be a change, either longer cooldown or Muni price. Imagine the shitstorm if StuG had a barrage like that.

Another idea is to greatly reduce it's AI power, but increase it's damage to buildings and bunkers and also make it's barrage are smaller.



stug get op stop tank with TWP for 3 second so they are both fine when we compare these 2 units , not overall balance
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Hater
20 Aug 2015, 10:44 AM
#12
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Posts: 493

Every 10 seconds? Indeed...
mastered mode: 4v3
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
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__deleted__
20 Aug 2015, 10:46 AM
#13
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 830

If they add a muni cost to it, it should become better. Usually it does nothing but waste it's ability to shoot at tanks or vehicles.
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BlackKorp
20 Aug 2015, 10:59 AM
#14
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

Banana :banana::bananadance:
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dasheepeh
20 Aug 2015, 11:38 AM
#15
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Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

leave the su76 alone
servant to the vet 5 königskübel

b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast

fan of the illustrious black prince
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QueenRatchet123
20 Aug 2015, 12:06 PM
#16
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
its fine
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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RMMLz
20 Aug 2015, 13:41 PM
#17
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2015, 10:32 AM__deleted__



stug get op stop tank with TWP for 3 second so they are both fine when we compare these 2 units , not overall balance


I'm not arguing StuG's TWP, but at least it help versus tanks (TWP is another discussion). StuG is pure AT unit (yes, it has a MG but still.) but SU76, at the current state is both AT and AI. StuG can't counter ATGs but SU-76 can.

http://dadmand-art.ir/
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Robbie_Rotten
20 Aug 2015, 14:00 PM
#18
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Donator 11

Posts: 412

It's fine. It is already on an absurdly long cooldown and the scatter is insane unless you drive right up to the enemy.
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Robbie_Rotten
20 Aug 2015, 14:01 PM
#19
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Donator 11

Posts: 412

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2015, 13:41 PMRMMLz


I'm not arguing StuG's TWP, but at least it help versus tanks (TWP is another discussion). StuG is pure AT unit (yes, it has a MG but still.) but SU76, at the current state is both AT and AI. StuG can't counter ATGs but SU-76 can.


SU-76 can only counter paks depending on how much :hansRNG: loves you that day.
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elchino7
20 Aug 2015, 22:59 PM
#20
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2015, 11:38 AMdasheepeh
leave the su76 alone


Leave Britney alone!

My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » SU76 - Free Barrage

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KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
Last Friday, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
Last Thursday, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
Last Thursday, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
Last Thursday, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
Last Thursday, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
Last Thursday, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
Last Wednesday, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
Last Tuesday, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
Last Tuesday, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
Last Tuesday, 02:53 AM
Soheil: Coh2 is dead , full of map hackers , and lelic knows that but ...
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aerafield: Oh how I missed the weird spam bots, welcome back :banana:
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03 Mar 2025, 06:48 AM
OKSpitfire: @aerafield that does sound familiar
02 Mar 2025, 09:06 AM
aerafield: @Lady Xenarra :rofl:
02 Mar 2025, 01:45 AM
Lady Xenarra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndJx2yq79ZY
02 Mar 2025, 00:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: Ah, the gren faust-replacing-rifles bug/exploit. :ph34r:
01 Mar 2025, 18:24 PM
aerafield: CoH3 high elo is truly the dumbest CoH experience that ever existed
01 Mar 2025, 17:25 PM
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