What to do with the MG34?

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 14:30 PMLucas Troy

My original post:

better at suppressing blobs

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:12 PMAppleseed

if you think price is cheap and its performance justify its price difference let's look at 4 major stat of HMGs

HMG34 210MP
DPS: close: 10.098, Far: 0.9919
Suppression close: 0.3564 Far: 0.1944
Setup time 0.65

HMG42 280MP
DPS: close: 27.7200, Far: 6.1064
Suppression close: 0.4752 Far: 0.2592
setup time 0.65

Maxim 240MP
DPS: close: 24.6628, Far: 6.7045
Suppression close: 0.2499 Far: 0.2678

.50 Cal 280MP
DPS: close 26.8169 far: 6.0225
Suppression close:0.4950 Far: 0.2400

so from the stat

HMG34 is 30MP cheaper than Maxim while its DPS is 40.9% close 14.79% far Suppression is 142.6% close 72.6% far so I add those percent together and divide by 4 is 67.72% so for 12.5% cheaper price in MP HMG34 have 67.72% stat of Maxim in those 4 category, you may say about is arc bigger, but Maxim have more man and quicker setup

HMG34 is 70MP cheaper than HMG42 while its DPS is 36.43% close 16.24% far Suppression is 75% close 75% far so I add those percent together and divide by 4 is 50.67% so for 25% cheaper price in MP HMG34 have 50.67% stat of HMG42 in those 4 category

HMG34 is 70MP cheaper than .50cal while its DPS is 37.65% close 16.46% far Suppression is 72% close 81% far so I add those percent together and divide by 4 is 55.64% so for 25% cheaper price in MP HMG34 have 55.64% stat of .50cal in those 4 category

the price is justify for its suppression stat wise, but its damage is not, and its real performance is about less than halve effective as HMG42, it should at least increase the damage to match the price like 75% of HMG42 damage or increase its suppression to match with HMG42 but damage stays same.

you may say HMG is not suppose to do damage things, but can you deny that HMG team damage helped alot during engagement, if all HMG have similar damage as HMG34, I think there will no more Maxim spam thing anymore. because infantry can stay in the zone all day long to give vision for mortars to pick out HMG team.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:10 PMOZtheWiZARD

Hey Alex, is there any unit in OKW arsenal you wouldn't like to change?
Seriously everything is either under performing or not worth buying for you. You want to buff every single OKW unit there is!

Yet somehow is able to suppress multiple squads, has much wider con of fire when compared to maxim and is more durable than '50.

It's like MG42 with slightly worse suppression and weaker damage. What's that you're saying? It costs 210MP? 30MP less than standard HMG? Well I guess it's fine then.
What's that again? OKW doesn't have any stock HMG? Is that true? Is there any unit fulfilling this role? There is? It's called Kubel? So MG34 is only available as a supplement to your army when picking specific commanders and it was never designed as OKW core unit due to overall OKW army balance?
Oh, well I guess that explains a lot. I'd say MG34 is fine as it is then.

if you think price is cheap and its performance justify its price difference let's look at 4 major stat of HMGs

HMG34 210MP
DPS: close: 10.098, Far: 0.9919
Suppression close: 0.3564 Far: 0.1944
Setup time 0.65

HMG42 280MP
DPS: close: 27.7200, Far: 6.1064
Suppression close: 0.4752 Far: 0.2592
setup time 0.65

Maxim 240MP
DPS: close: 24.6628, Far: 6.7045
Suppression close: 0.2499 Far: 0.2678

.50 Cal 280MP
DPS: close 26.8169 far: 6.0225
Suppression close:0.4950 Far: 0.2400

so from the stat

HMG34 is 30MP cheaper than Maxim while its DPS is 40.9% close 14.79% far Suppression is 142.6% close 72.6% far so I add those percent together and divide by 4 is 67.72% so for 12.5% cheaper price in MP HMG34 have 67.72% stat of Maxim in those 4 category, you may say about is arc bigger, but Maxim have more man and quicker setup

HMG34 is 70MP cheaper than HMG42 while its DPS is 36.43% close 16.24% far Suppression is 75% close 75% far so I add those percent together and divide by 4 is 50.67% so for 25% cheaper price in MP HMG34 have 50.67% stat of HMG42 in those 4 category

HMG34 is 70MP cheaper than .50cal while its DPS is 37.65% close 16.46% far Suppression is 72% close 81% far so I add those percent together and divide by 4 is 55.64% so for 25% cheaper price in MP HMG34 have 55.64% stat of .50cal in those 4 category

the price is justify for its suppression stat wise, but its damage is not, and its real performance is about less than halve effective as HMG42, it should at least increase the damage to match the price like 75% of HMG42 damage or increase its suppression to match with HMG42 but damage stays same.

you may say HMG is not suppose to do damage things, but can you deny that HMG team damage helped alot during engagement, if all HMG have similar damage as HMG34, I think there will no more Maxim spam thing anymore. because infantry can stay in the zone all day long to give vision for mortars to pick out HMG team.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:26 PMFul4n0

mmmm why then MG-42 is better than 50 cal if they cost the same? how do we justify same 280mp for both of them Alex??

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 03:25 AMJustin xv

The cheapest MG in the game with a faction that is known for floating MP, I would say increase the cost to the .50 cal and buff damage. Done.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:29 PMCookiezNcreem

OKW doesn't need any more area denial

As a reminder the Maxim (and of course .50) have tech costs which are not inconsiderable, while the MG34 has none. Until such time as I can build Maxims and .50's at 1 cp without tech the cost of the MG34 should remain.

In its current format the MG34 is fine, if you are willing to change the way the MG34 is built and the faction slightly we can talk about changes.

I want to reiterate for 210 mp in a faction that rarely lacks mp you can have a suppression platform at no tech cost, instantly, and salvage the gun if you lose the crew for fuel. It also comes with 5 possible levels of vet and a good vet one ability.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:00 PMOZtheWiZARD

Did I say anything about BAR upgrade? I said Rear Echelon squad. That means vanilla squad. Not to mention when adding BAR upgrade you are paying for it with ammunition. Simple fact that makes your argument flawed.

Reading and Understanding are two different skills you know.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:52 PMAlexzandvar

It doesn't have any area denial outside of the Flak HQ. Compared to Ostheer which has bunkers and good MG's and minefields. Soviets have plentiful explosives to deny points and the maxim is finally a good MG.



Except with veterancy it still can't take on any other MG in the game 1 on 1. Be it without vet or with veterancy. The reason why the popular suggestion is to raise the cost and buff it is that it wouldn't be spammable and it would actually do what it's supposed to do. In 4's it might be fine but in 1's and 2's it sucks that you can't rely on it at all. And it doesn't help 1 of the doctrines it's stuck in (Luftwaffe) is shit.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 16:34 PMcomm_ash

WTF? I would think that the .50 should be doing either more damage or more suppression. This is kind of bullshit. Especially since it hits the field so much later.

Don't compare the MG34's effectiveness to that of the MG42. The MG42 is definitely overperforming for cost.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:29 PMAlexzandvar

It doesn't have slightly worse suppression, it has MUCH worse suppression.

HMG34 210MP
DPS: close: 10.098, Far: 0.9919
Suppression close: 0.3564 Far: 0.1944
Setup time 0.65

HMG42 280MP
DPS: close: 27.7200, Far: 6.1064
Suppression close: 0.4752 Far: 0.2592
setup time 0.65

Maxim 240MP
DPS: close: 24.6628, Far: 6.7045
Suppression close: 0.2499 Far: 0.2678

.50 Cal 280MP
DPS: close 26.8169 far: 6.0225
Suppression close:0.4950 Far: 0.2400

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 15:29 PMAlexzandvar

Ill say what I said in the other thread, play some more OKW before trying to argue the factions strengths and weakness's.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 16:34 PMcomm_ash

Wait wait wait, people are complaining about the MG34, which needs a slight DPS buff, but not to much with its current price. I can get on board with that. However:

HMG42 260MP
DPS: close: 27.7200, Far: 6.1064
Suppression close: 0.4752 Far: 0.2592
setup time 0.65

.50 Cal 280MP
DPS: close 26.8169 far: 6.0225
Suppression close:0.4950 Far: 0.2400

WTF? I would think that the .50 should be doing either more damage or more suppression. This is kind of bullshit. Especially since it hits the field so much later.

Don't compare the MG34's effectiveness to that of the MG42. The MG42 is definitely overperforming for cost.

I don't know why you insist on belittling my experience. If you think 4v4 has a longer early game than 1v1 and 2v2 then I think you need to play more 4v4. While I may not have as much experience in smaller games I certainly cannot be said not to play in them routinely. Numerous people have already pointed out why a serious buff right now is dangerous unless other things happen.

You don't need to rely on it because your tech tree already offers you everything you need to win. It only adds flavor to the faction. I find the MG34 quite useful in a narrow window. I would like to see things changed to offer it more room to work.

Last thing, if you want to counter MG's with MG's be my guest, but I would really recommend looking into your tech tree for another option besides it costs less than all other MG's in the game (especially including tech costs). Using the MG34 to slug it out with another MG is definitely trouble.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 16:55 PMOZtheWiZARD

I'd even say my understanding of OKW is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than yours

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 16:59 PMAlexzandvar

Are you just going to gloss over the fact the .50 cal has a much shorter pack up time? I think what the .50 cal needs is 1 more crew member (all USF and OKW crews should be 5 men). The .50 cal also needs more armor and health on the gun, so it doesn't break so easily.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 16:41 PMzarok47

Diffrence in DPS can be attribute to difference in sqaudsizes.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 17:19 PMcomm_ash

The pack up time is, as it has always been, compensated for with a larger arc. Not to mention a much better vet 1 ability.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 16:55 PMOZtheWiZARD

I played OKW enough to be able to understand them. I did that back in the day when it was very hard to play but very rewarding faction. Not this blob fest it is today. I'd even say my understanding of OKW is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than yours, what I proved on multiple occasions, postulating for changes that were latter implemented by Relic in balance patch.

Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2015, 17:22 PMKatitof

This isn't valid argument since western front armies release and it will be even more irrelevant with release of brits.