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russian armor

USF Mines need looking at

6 Aug 2015, 22:10 PM
#21
avatar of Midconflict

Posts: 204

I agree that the M20 mines should be moved to REs. Their stats need to be aligned with teller mines though (immobilize crit chance removed/reduced).

The light AT mines are fine where they are IMO.


agreed. Lower the price to 35 ammo and have them be like soviet that can hit both Inf and tanks for the RE, and allow the M20 mine to stay.
6 Aug 2015, 22:15 PM
#22
avatar of Midconflict

Posts: 204

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2015, 21:41 PMRollo
Mines like that were barred behind doctrines/vehicles for a reason. As for the box mine, just put it in more doctrines.


No this goes against everything people on the forums have been saying they want. This is why the call in meta was changed. People are sick a tired of being told that they can only play with a few commanders, or have to tech a certain way. Like i said Mine are and important part of CoH2 and were in CoH1, every faction in the game has access to mine with out tech, or commanders. All but the USF, so no just putting box mine in more commander would solve nothing, including the fact that you have to lay five in a clump to do any kind of damage to tanks.
6 Aug 2015, 22:16 PM
#23
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

It's weird how half of the recommendation threads are about changing the USF. I have no idea why so many people want to change the strongest and best 1 vs 1 faction in the game.


Soviets are better than USF by a considerable margin.

Mines actually promote game play that is not so fun.. flanks are no longer that rewarding, too risky to attempt multi side flanks, especially with tanks.. and one shots like these for a squad are a crime. Still not feasible to sweep em all. Don't care for more mines being around.


Mines are great for gameplay as they allow you to actually cover your flanks. This helps to protect less mobile units such as support weapons against fast moving units like infantry and fast vehicles. It also adds the tactical dimension of baiting units into deadly traps like when you have a teller-mine covered by an AT-gun on your retreat path, ready to destroy an enemy tank that tries to cut down your men on retreat; or when you present a katysha as a juicy target for an enemy to flank, only for him to run over a well-placed mine on the flanking path and you being able to hunt it down with ease.

Without mines, flanking would be too rewarding, and mobility would have too much of an impact on unit performance.

As for the topic at hand: USF already has the anti-vehicle mine covered, but they could use some anti-infantry mines.
6 Aug 2015, 22:32 PM
#24
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738



No this goes against everything people on the forums have been saying they want. This is why the call in meta was changed. People are sick a tired of being told that they can only play with a few commanders, or have to tech a certain way. Like i said Mine are and important part of CoH2 and were in CoH1, every faction in the game has access to mine with out tech, or commanders. All but the USF, so no just putting box mine in more commander would solve nothing, including the fact that you have to lay five in a clump to do any kind of damage to tanks.


m20 mine with RE's will not be balanced, imagine trying to counter harass with an OKW PIV and having the entire map covered with them by midgame. With Soviet/OKW/Ost mines you can limp away, but when your tank is immobilized it's helpless which can often spell the end of the game.

Having such a powerful weapon so easily available from the start with cheap units is not balanced, hence why reigels/m20 mines are locked behind vehicles.
6 Aug 2015, 22:36 PM
#25
avatar of Midconflict

Posts: 204

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2015, 22:32 PMRollo


m20 mine with RE's will not be balanced, imagine trying to counter harass with an OKW PIV and having the entire map covered with them by midgame. With Soviet/OKW/Ost mines you can limp away, but when your tank is immobilized it's helpless which can often spell the end of the game.

Having such a powerful weapon so easily available from the start with cheap units is not balanced, hence why reigels/m20 mines are locked behind vehicles.


I already said that the RE should get another mine like the Soviets/OKW/Ost. look up. ALso though it is a low chance teller can also immobilize.
6 Aug 2015, 23:03 PM
#26
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 424 | Subs: 2

I would like to see REs be given a special 30 munition mine that is basically a smaller tellar mine. Doesn't get set off by infantry only vehicles and causes engine damage and around the same damage of the Soviet mine. If USF gets a cheap anti-tank mine, I'll be happy.
6 Aug 2015, 23:19 PM
#27
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

It could just be a quadstack of light at mines
6 Aug 2015, 23:29 PM
#28
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

They could just give them light at mines and buff them to relevance.
7 Aug 2015, 00:09 AM
#29
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Light AT mines actually aren't bad, they're just micro taxing to place.
7 Aug 2015, 01:09 AM
#30
avatar of Midconflict

Posts: 204

Light AT mines actually aren't bad, they're just micro taxing to place.


and there is no reason to just lay one. And really these Light at mines i think should be the main thing changed. Just make them a Field, have then go off from inf to, and let RE build them. IF nothing else if Relic doesn't want to make a new mine for USF, i would be happy with just this.
7 Aug 2015, 02:04 AM
#31
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I'm gonna quote allmighty Cruzz

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2014, 11:01 AMCruzz
20 damage, 1000 penetration, will apply debuff "hit light at mine" for 7 seconds

Light vehicle:

1 or 2 debuffs:
engine damage 30%, no crit 70%

3 debuffs
engine damage 40%, threads destroyed 40%, no crit 20%


Heavy vehicle:

1 or 2 debuffs
crew shock 10%, engine damaged 10%, no crit 80%

3 debuffs
threads destroyed 33%, engine damaged 33%, no crit 33%


Problem: debuff stacks to max 5 instead of 3, so making large fields of the mines will actually make the explosions after the first few hugely detrimental because they'll stop crits from happening.

So, you basically should always lay these mines 4 in one place assuming the debuff gets applied after crit calculation, or 3 if before. Someone needs to test that.


You need to put them on sets of 4 (i tested*). It's a matter of time and "micro" (shift command) but the mines on itself are pretty good. For 20muni you get a teller 33% of the time :P

If debuffs stacks at 5, then putting more than 6 mines per batch is useless.
Do the following. Made a custom game with cheatcommand and put batches of 4 mines, and see how many times it fails to crit a tank. I made the test and failed just 1 after more than 15+ tries**.


*Strategists should change the Infantry guide. Cause putting this mines on sets of 3 doesn't work. It needs to be 4 to get the better debuff/crits.

**Test were try by making batches of 4 mines and then spawning a PIV on top of them.
7 Aug 2015, 04:55 AM
#32
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

i'd like to have the build time decreased so i can place them reactively rather then always having to place them and then hope the enemy has a vehicle in the area while i'm there and that he falls for my bait. if they took like 5 seconds to place i could spot a tank, fall back while planting one behind a shot blocker and then bait the tank onto it rather then getting caught trying to place it somewhere i was safe 7 seconds ago.
7 Aug 2015, 12:16 PM
#33
avatar of Silencer

Posts: 65


Mines are great for gameplay as they allow you to actually cover your flanks. This helps to protect less mobile units such as support weapons against fast moving units like infantry and fast vehicles. It also adds the tactical dimension of baiting units into deadly traps like when you have a teller-mine covered by an AT-gun on your retreat path, ready to destroy an enemy tank that tries to cut down your men on retreat; or when you present a katysha as a juicy target for an enemy to flank, only for him to run over a well-placed mine on the flanking path and you being able to hunt it down with ease.

Without mines, flanking would be too rewarding, and mobility would have too much of an impact on unit performance.

As for the topic at hand: USF already has the anti-vehicle mine covered, but they could use some anti-infantry mines.


In 2v2, the case is more that in mid-game, they just get spammed everywhere. A good reason you shouldn't leave one area completely uncontested for long, but if it has you can guarantee there will be tons of mines. Isn't skillful for me, pretty much the opposite. They can still wipe squads in corners or if squads otherwise being dumb, which for the cost just shouldn't happen at all.. Not a fan.

Maybe they should give ammo for scavenging mines, this way, with major mine spam you would only give resources for your opponent..
7 Aug 2015, 12:54 PM
#34
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

While where at it can we let RE build sand bags too?
7 Aug 2015, 13:05 PM
#35
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

I believe that the RE should be the ultimate support engineer - weak weapon, very low DPS, but able to do lots of terrain modifications. They should be able to make sandbags (like the AssaultPlazma's suggestion), their volley should be a little better, they should lay those weak AT mines (that should be laid in groups of 3 by default) and maybe they could be a little faster to build stuff.

Maybe it wouldn't change much to USF's early game, but sure would give options.
7 Aug 2015, 13:16 PM
#36
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

It's weird how half of the recommendation threads are about changing the USF. I have no idea why so many people want to change the strongest and best 1 vs 1 faction in the game.




strongest and best 1 vs 1 faction in the game.
Pls
http://coh2chart.com/

:romeoPls::romeoPls::romeoPls::romeoPls:
7 Aug 2015, 13:37 PM
#37
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

I believe that the RE should be the ultimate support engineer - weak weapon, very low DPS, but able to do lots of terrain modifications. They should be able to make sandbags (like the AssaultPlazma's suggestion), their volley should be a little better, they should lay those weak AT mines (that should be laid in groups of 3 by default) and maybe they could be a little faster to build stuff.

Maybe it wouldn't change much to USF's early game, but sure would give options.


+1

REs shoot as if they are all cross-eyed unless you sink Munis into them to give them BARs and even then they are super squishy. *Something* should be done with volley fire without bringing back the old broken version as the current version is a waste in a Muni starved faction. Anything that would give you more options than rifle spam opening would be a good thing for the game.
7 Aug 2015, 13:54 PM
#38
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

Yes please, give US real mines!
7 Aug 2015, 15:17 PM
#39
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

7 Aug 2015, 15:26 PM
#40
avatar of The Big Red 1

Posts: 758

i would like it if they could allow ReTs to not only to build mines but also sandbags since fighting positions costs MP whereas sandbags are for free
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