I just hate hate hate the fact that they are always bunched together in a tight formation. Other day, I tried to re-position and test this out, and no matter where my model will stand, they are always bunched up. This opens up to instant wipes far too many times. Out of all the infantry units, Falls face the most squad bunching mechanic, its like all the models are magnetic to one and another.I concur: I noticed that when playing larger matches, Falls are supreme as long as you're not able to shoot back, but once they encounter some good resistance like a tank, they're done within seconds.
Fallschirmjaegers: A small re-design
6 Aug 2015, 21:01 PM
#21
Posts: 1216
6 Aug 2015, 23:20 PM
#22
Posts: 4928
You mean like the last ability in the doctrine that actually allows you to paradrop them in?
If we wanted to be even more realistic, they're not even using the right drop animation. German Paratroopers dropped without rifles or submachine guns. Their weapons dropped in a separately, and they collected them after they landed.
This is also the reason the Battle of Crete was such a failure, many weapon crates landed off course and the British Army arrived at them first, leaving many Paratroopers with only Pistols to fight with.
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7 Aug 2015, 01:10 AM
#23
Posts: 1216
And after Crete they no longer deployed via plane, they were just used as light infantry.
As for redesign, I do agree with OP: give them rifles and can upgrade to FG42s. An idea I would want to add is that it also has some form of AT assault, so instead of the panzerfaust, it has some sort of AT grenade assault similar to Tank Hunter Tactics.
Another idea to boost survivability in exchange for reduced firepower is that their passive camouflage comes at vet0, and their role becomes more like light infantry- scout, capture points, headshotting lonely mortars, and finishing off vehicles that have escaped from a fight. 4-man squad size makes them vulnerable in conventional fights, and with reduction of FG42s to just two per squad means they won't be uber squad wiping machines.
This makes them powerful light infantry, but doesn't make them less like light infantry.
This way they end up being premier scout/ stealth units without being spawn versions of Obers.
As for redesign, I do agree with OP: give them rifles and can upgrade to FG42s. An idea I would want to add is that it also has some form of AT assault, so instead of the panzerfaust, it has some sort of AT grenade assault similar to Tank Hunter Tactics.
Another idea to boost survivability in exchange for reduced firepower is that their passive camouflage comes at vet0, and their role becomes more like light infantry- scout, capture points, headshotting lonely mortars, and finishing off vehicles that have escaped from a fight. 4-man squad size makes them vulnerable in conventional fights, and with reduction of FG42s to just two per squad means they won't be uber squad wiping machines.
This makes them powerful light infantry, but doesn't make them less like light infantry.
This way they end up being premier scout/ stealth units without being spawn versions of Obers.
7 Aug 2015, 01:13 AM
#24
Posts: 1891
Problem:JLI and Fusies are scouts.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
7 Aug 2015, 01:19 AM
#25
3 
Posts: 658
Well, I actually don't want to see their DPS reduced. They would have only 2 FG42s but those would be stronger than the old ones to keep their squad DPS the same.
That way losing models doesn't reduce their DPS by 25% each time.
That way losing models doesn't reduce their DPS by 25% each time.
7 Aug 2015, 01:25 AM
#26
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Problem:JLI and Fusies are scouts.
Well, to be fair, Fusies are also scouts that are more numerous than their faction mainline infantry.
I also thought Paras being a man over Rifles was a bit weird while they're obviously the elite infantry, but it ain't as bad when they cost a ton more and those guys aren't explicitly labeled as light infantry at least.
9 Aug 2015, 15:49 PM
#27
Posts: 5
What if we gave them 4 Obers Kars on deployment. Good standoff overall but NOT going to DPS a squad from behind out of nowhere. Can still use panzerfaust snare to trip up retreating tanks or grenade a troublesome MG.
Upon first retreat, they switch out their weapon load. 2 obers kars remain, 2 highly buffed FG42s go make the squad worthwhile for their investment.
Upon first retreat, they switch out their weapon load. 2 obers kars remain, 2 highly buffed FG42s go make the squad worthwhile for their investment.
9 Aug 2015, 16:00 PM
#28
Posts: 306
Falls really suck... the only thing they are good at is falling over...
9 Aug 2015, 16:22 PM
#29
Posts: 89 | Subs: 1
I like the idea that most people put out : let them drop in by airplane instead of being able to spawn out of ambient buildings.
I mainly play team games, and it is always a bummer when you have a problem defending your front line and these guys come and attack you from behind. If properly executed they are amazing units to turn tides in team games. In that regard, i'd rather not see them buffed in any way, except if they get their ambient-building-spawn ability removed.
I mainly play team games, and it is always a bummer when you have a problem defending your front line and these guys come and attack you from behind. If properly executed they are amazing units to turn tides in team games. In that regard, i'd rather not see them buffed in any way, except if they get their ambient-building-spawn ability removed.
9 Aug 2015, 16:58 PM
#30
1 
Posts: 609
I find their ability to Faust combined with building spawn very inconvenient when using katushkas. It's almost impossible to stop them appearing killing the katushkas and hitting retreat to escape. You have to resort to demoing all buildings. It's too easy a counter to these high fuel units which should need to be properly flanked or artilleried. If they retain ambient spawn I think they should lose Faust or gain it at vet 1
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9 Aug 2015, 17:48 PM
#31
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
Nothing wrong with the spawn building mechanic, but if they made it so they paratrooped when not called in from a building (on open maps with lack of buildings for example) that would be a nice change. Increasing effectiveness would be nice but I don't see a need for any redesign other than maybe a short and inexpensive (50mun?) FG42 upgrade to prevent it from popping out of a building and instantly melting a high value unit like a sniper.
9 Aug 2015, 18:04 PM
#32
Posts: 484
This is also the reason the Battle of Crete was such a failure, many weapon crates landed off course and the British Army arrived at them first, leaving many Paratroopers with only Pistols to fight with.
Umm, this is the battle of Crete which the Germans won, yes?
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
9 Aug 2015, 18:11 PM
#33
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently Banned
Umm, this is the battle of Crete which the Germans won, yes?
Despite heavy paratrooper casualties. The brits still couldn't beat the germans.
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axis
9 Aug 2015, 18:20 PM
#34
1 Posts: 609
Despite heavy paratrooper casualties. The brits still couldn't beat the germans.
German air support (that damned CAS again)
Plus some incompetence
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9 Aug 2015, 18:21 PM
#35
Posts: 484
If there' one thing that WW2 demonstrated, it's that big airborne operations always produce high casualties. cf. Arnhem etc. So I don't think this is particularly pertinent.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
9 Aug 2015, 18:25 PM
#36
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently BannedYeah, airborne are some ballsy fuckers. Your only hope of survival is just not getting caught or ambushing and killing anybody you see before they kill you. Then hopefully running back to the frontlines. Its better nowadays with radios,gps, and phones and shit
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axis
9 Aug 2015, 18:35 PM
#37
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Yeah, airborne are some ballsy fuckers.
'Course, crazy bastards jump out of a perfectly good aircraft.
9 Aug 2015, 23:37 PM
#38
Posts: 4928
Umm, this is the battle of Crete which the Germans won, yes?
They won, but it wasn't a battle worth winning. They took far more losses than necessary due to a significant number of their men being unable to reach their weapons. Crete is the reason Hitler ordered them to never do that again, and considered large-scale airborne assaults to be tactically unsound.
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10 Aug 2015, 00:47 AM
#39
Posts: 484
Well, he wasn't wrong. It's pretty much the same conclusion everyone came to, eventually, and why we're unlikely IMO to ever see that sort of thing again.
All I was disputing was that it was a "failure", seeing as it did in fact achieve its goals. Even a Pyrrhic victory is better than an actual defeat.
All I was disputing was that it was a "failure", seeing as it did in fact achieve its goals. Even a Pyrrhic victory is better than an actual defeat.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
10 Aug 2015, 02:55 AM
#40
Posts: 1216
Problem:JLI and Fusies are scouts.
True but none of these units are found in the same commander; JLIs also have a sniping role, while Panzerfusiliers have flares, G43s and AT rifle grenade (and better than Riflemens' too, ironically).
I just thought of anther way Fallschirmjaegars can be deployed differently:
Have them deploy in a 250 halftrack. Sure it's pretty much clown car strat, but they come rather late, it adds costs fuel to cost, but you gain a powerful infantry squad that has mobility, which also removes the whole spawning issue. For a doctrine that doesn't feature vehicles a 40fuel transport carrying FG42 troops would seem more reasonable than paradropping or nerfing their weapons.
This would give them a more unique fire-brigade sort of role that doesn't really overstep stock units. It might replace the Luchs if you're focusing on infantry, but it does shift the resource burden and, if used soon after unlocking, might mean setting back your tech/ vehicle strat, which of course might not be a good idea since it comes at a time where light vehicles/ AT guns are coming out.
So rather than being that behind-enemy-lines unit it becomes a sort of spearhead infantry.
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