Pack Howitzer doesn't do it's job

So I recently decided to watch relic's latest stream where Brad attempted to show us how to play with USF (by promptly losing of course).
http://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment/v/9113981

The thing that stood out to me was how much the pack howitzer failed in it's role. Brad originally got it to counter his opponents mortar and protect his fighting positions. Not only did it not hit the mortar once despite brad targeting it every chance he got, it eventually got taken out by the very mortar he got it to take out.

This pretty much explains my frustrations with the unit as well. It's terrible at countering support weapons. It's bad accuracy and shitty barrage especially at range makes it so inefficient at counter support weapons. It's extended barrage range may as well not even be there considering it wont hit anything at those ranges. Even the supposedly cheaper mortars are better at it's job then it is.

I know that the pack can be powerful, especially getting lucky wipes at attacking infantry, but what good is it when it can't fulfill it's intended role. It ends up being a gimmick unit that takes away from the mobile style play of the army it's in. USF needs units that can actually fulfill it's role or they will continue to be such a boring and ineffective army.

I think you had a thread about this before which was well written about the USF's artillery problem (not that there is anything wrong with this thread).

The pack sits in a weird place for artillery. As a no barrage, mobile, artillery unit it cannot be so strong because it can fire constantly. However, it is extremely vulnerable, highly inaccurate, highly costly, and hard to predict. Some games this unit does well and some games not.

USF is sorely in need of indirect fire options, as has been stated many times.

Panzerwerfer?

Panzerwerfer?

At least Ostheer has a very good mortar available early on regardless of tech (unless your going fast t2). Nebelwerfer is definitely underperforming but I think that the pack howie sucking hurts the USF more than the werfer sucking hurts OST.

I got a pack howitzer awhile back and i really loved it~
I used it the same way i use the OKW Leig gun

Neither is something i'd use to counter a mortar but it is something i'd use to target an attacking blob of soldiers to kill some models and slow them down so i can react to it better (with the supperession thing it has of course)

Actually... I'd target mortars or team weapons once it unlocked it's white phosphorus barrage ability....

Meh, that's just me.... I hve loads of fun with the suppressing artillery the WFA has ^^~

At least Ostheer has a very good mortar available early on regardless of tech (unless your going fast t2). Nebelwerfer is definitely underperforming but I think that the pack howie sucking hurts the USF more than the werfer sucking hurts OST.

When that T4 units is worse than a T1 mortar, something really wrong right?

Anyway, Pack Howie is working right, only thing wrong is its stupid reinforcing cost.

I think you had a thread about this before which was well written about the USF's artillery problem (not that there is anything wrong with this thread).

The pack sits in a weird place for artillery. As a no barrage, mobile, artillery unit it cannot be so strong because it can fire constantly. However, it is extremely vulnerable, highly inaccurate, highly costly, and hard to predict. Some games this unit does well and some games not.

USF is sorely in need of indirect fire options, as has been stated many times.

I figured with the changes it deserved to be talked about again. Atleast it's not completely worthless like it is before they fixed it's cost problems.

I just really want to like this unit. As a reactive type of player I will usually get one if my opponent is relying to much on MGs or defenses,but I end up being dissipointed every time. It usually ends up doing more damage to the grens and volks then the support weapons.

What I'm worried about is relic looking at it's performance and thinking that since it does a good amount of damage that it's in an okay place. But I feel as long as it isn't accomplishing it's role USF won't be able to reasonably deal with the situations they are facing and end upp losing more then they should because of it.

Yup its shit; I Would take a mortar any day.

I get it every game and it always gets vet 2-3 assuming the game lasts long enough

I got a pack howitzer awhile back and i really loved it~
I used it the same way i use the OKW Leig gun

Neither is something i'd use to counter a mortar but it is something i'd use to target an attacking blob of soldiers to kill some models and slow them down so i can react to it better (with the supperession thing it has of course)

Actually... I'd target mortars or team weapons once it unlocked it's white phosphorus barrage ability....

Meh, that's just me.... I hve loads of fun with the suppressing artillery the WFA has ^^~

The lieg has similar problems, but the lieg can be set up next to a flak or medic base, making them very hard to harass or counter barrage. Not to mention a gun shield to defend it. The pack comes in a tier with 0 suppression units making it really hard to actually defend it. Especially since it's autofire is even lower then the lieg as well, forcing it closer.

The lieg works with the OKW playstle while the pack works against USF. Also OKW can always just get a stuka. M8 just does more of the same.

If you use it at long range it will be useless, if you use at medium to short range it kicks ass. Same for the LeiG (although it has a smaller AoE so you need to pretty much always have direct LoS).

It's veterancy is light years ahead of the LeiG.

Anyway, Pack Howie is working right, only thing wrong is its stupid reinforcing cost.

Anyway, Pack Howie is working right, only thing wrong is its stupid reinforcing cost.

It was fixed,so the pack howie is even better now. Along with being cheaper.

And regarding not having suppression to protect it,backtech to LT

itsfine.

If you use it at long range it will be useless, if you use at medium to short range it kicks ass. Same for the LeiG (although it has a smaller AoE so you need to pretty much always have direct LoS).

It's veterancy is light years ahead of the LeiG.

I rather it be the other way around. Protecting it while it needs to be so close can be extremely difficult. If things go poorly even once, it can easily end up in the hands of your opponents. No retreat or gun shield remember. It's also what makes it so terrible at countering things like mortars or pak 43s. There really isn't another unit in the USF that can actually do those roles.

I don't have problems getting kills with my packs. The problem is it isn't killing the things I need it to. Making it hard to take ground and forcing my rifles to take on MGs and the like on their own contributing to the bleed. Pack just does more of what can be done by rifle's grenades and MGs.

Yeah it's not very good at countering a mortar, but I've been using it every match lately, and I think it's pretty good against Axis infantry.

Yeah it's not very good at countering a mortar, but I've been using it every match lately, and I think it's pretty good against Axis infantry.

I use it almost every game because there really isn't much of a choice. What else are you going to buy? Another riflemen? If you are going captain it's either the pack or an AT gun if you want to spend manpower.

I understand that the Pak howie is great at hitting squads close by and running straight at it, however, my biggest gripe with the pak howie is that it goes against USF faction design.

The USF faction was designed as a high DPS faction that is meant to be constantly on the move and attacking enemy positions. All USF support weapons support this fact. The .50 is capable of setting up quickly, making it a viable support unit for attacking infantry. The M1 57mm AT gun has a fast ROF with low pen, making it a unit that is meant to be used on the flanks of engagements and quickly re-positioned. All USF armor has low survivability, but instead rely on their mobility to make up for their weaknesses.

The USF indirect support weapon should be a fast moving weapon that is meant to constantly reposition to keep up with rapidly moving forces. It should be a lighter mortar or a mortar HT, capable of quickly moving into range, doing its job, and pulling back.

This is the main reason why I find the Pak Howitzer underwhelming. It is a good support weapon in the wrong army. As such it suffers from not having other units adept to doing the same job it does (holding territory), whilst not particularly aiding the mobile tactics required for the use of literally every other USF unit.

I understand that the Pak howie is great at hitting squads close by and running straight at it, however, my biggest gripe with the pak howie is that it goes against USF faction design.

The USF faction was designed as a high DPS faction that is meant to be constantly on the move and attacking enemy positions. All USF support weapons support this fact. The .50 is capable of setting up quickly, making it a viable support unit for attacking infantry. The M1 57mm AT gun has a fast ROF with low pen, making it a unit that is meant to be used on the flanks of engagements and quickly re-positioned. All USF armor has low survivability, but instead rely on their mobility to make up for their weaknesses.

The USF indirect support weapon should be a fast moving weapon that is meant to constantly reposition to keep up with rapidly moving forces. It should be a lighter mortar or a mortar HT, capable of quickly moving into range, doing its job, and pulling back.

This is the main reason why I find the Pak Howitzer underwhelming. It is a good support weapon in the wrong army. As such it suffers from not having other units adept to doing the same job it does (holding territory), whilst not particularly aiding the mobile tactics required for the use of literally every other USF unit.

+1 well said

I understand that the Pak howie is great at hitting squads close by and running straight at it, however, my biggest gripe with the pak howie is that it goes against USF faction design.

The USF faction was designed as a high DPS faction that is meant to be constantly on the move and attacking enemy positions. All USF support weapons support this fact. The .50 is capable of setting up quickly, making it a viable support unit for attacking infantry. The M1 57mm AT gun has a fast ROF with low pen, making it a unit that is meant to be used on the flanks of engagements and quickly re-positioned. All USF armor has low survivability, but instead rely on their mobility to make up for their weaknesses.

The USF indirect support weapon should be a fast moving weapon that is meant to constantly reposition to keep up with rapidly moving forces. It should be a lighter mortar or a mortar HT, capable of quickly moving into range, doing its job, and pulling back.

This is the main reason why I find the Pak Howitzer underwhelming. It is a good support weapon in the wrong army. As such it suffers from not having other units adept to doing the same job it does (holding territory), whilst not particularly aiding the mobile tactics required for the use of literally every other USF unit.

It would be like if OKW got a light 50mm mortar.

I use it almost every game because there really isn't much of a choice. What else are you going to buy? Another riflemen? If you are going captain it's either the pack or an AT gun if you want to spend manpower.

Caches? Idfk man all I said was that in my experience the Pack Howitzer is pretty good!

EDIT:

I do think that they should've just given them a mobile M2 60mm or M1 80mm mortar instead though.