i don't like soviet snipers.
my question is: is soviet tier 1 ever worth it compared to tier 2, if you aren't going to go snipers. in 2v2.
Soviet T1 without Snipers
2 Aug 2015, 21:49 PM
#1
4 
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2 Aug 2015, 21:55 PM
#2
Posts: 1487
in 1v1 T1 without sniper will be close to worhless. Penals are 99% worthless already. So it will be tier for 1 unit M3.
Curenly in many situations first sniper at 0 CP and the 2nd in mid game is the only way not to lose miserably. If he masses lmg grens.
Curenly in many situations first sniper at 0 CP and the 2nd in mid game is the only way not to lose miserably. If he masses lmg grens.
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3 Aug 2015, 00:48 AM
#3
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
I used to enjoy using penals quite often because of their scalability into the lategame (compared to conscripts). They were a great complement for lend lease or any guard doctrine, especially on more urban maps and vs. OKW. In fact, with the nerfs to conscript molotovs, penals may be more useful to give your army a high DPS counter to flanked MGs and to counter units in buildings.
Flamers + M3 still gives you a great option to counter both early Kubels and OKW in general, though M3s are less useful against Ostheer due to the widespread usage of the Panzerfaust.
So in conclusion, I would say that T1 is a good choice to counter OKW. You no longer even need to worry about Flacktracks because you can quickly tech to T3 and counter it that way. Against Ostheer I would say that it is more dependent on the units you will be supporting the T1 with. When fighting Ostheer, the snipers are really the only useful aspect of Soviet T1, at least IMO.
Flamers + M3 still gives you a great option to counter both early Kubels and OKW in general, though M3s are less useful against Ostheer due to the widespread usage of the Panzerfaust.
So in conclusion, I would say that T1 is a good choice to counter OKW. You no longer even need to worry about Flacktracks because you can quickly tech to T3 and counter it that way. Against Ostheer I would say that it is more dependent on the units you will be supporting the T1 with. When fighting Ostheer, the snipers are really the only useful aspect of Soviet T1, at least IMO.
3 Aug 2015, 01:11 AM
#4
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
in risk of hijacking this thread, may i expand this position out and say that snipers both using and facing them are unfun. am i the only one that feels that way? from an ostheer perspective, they can be a real nuisance, especially with 4 men squads, and no real... "non-gamey" counter: highly recommended.
3 Aug 2015, 09:01 AM
#5
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Short answer: no.
Long answer:
Long answer:
3 Aug 2015, 09:24 AM
#6
Posts: 1653
Kappa, Snipers = T1 Rest is utterly crap, perhaps the M3..
3 Aug 2015, 22:36 PM
#7
Posts: 41
In my experience, vs. OKW the scout car gets more significance, because if you rush it, you can try to chase down their kubel right away when they are don't expect it. It loses its power against more experienced players, as they won't expose their kubel so hard, and are better in escaping with it, but it is still a threat until OKW gets their shrecks or a raketen. I prefer to build only one penal squad, as they have no AT-nade and can not shield the M3 from a 222 or a Puma.
If you still have the M3 in the lategame, it gives some nice utility dringing your engies around the map and laying mines. You can also ferry squads to the front if you can spare the extra micro, not often against good opponents though.
If you still have the M3 in the lategame, it gives some nice utility dringing your engies around the map and laying mines. You can also ferry squads to the front if you can spare the extra micro, not often against good opponents though.
3 Aug 2015, 22:45 PM
#8
Posts: 836 | Subs: 5
Before m5 rush meta I always did 2 to 3 cons, a 2nd engi, T1, two M3s, then guards. Snipers are good but the m3 is really what t1 is about IMO, more so against OKW to kill kubel and rundown/push strums.
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Devils_Brigade: man captain molo why dont you just buy and m3 drive that around instead of playing coh
4 Aug 2015, 01:20 AM
#9
Posts: 498
Going for a T1 opening without snipers is a great choice if you're going windustry, that's pretty much the only commander it works with
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"Lefh is love, Lefh is life" Festung Support for the winFI
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Best rank 1v1 - 33 Soviets, 2v2 - 1 Ostheer RT
usf okw soviets ostheer"Lefh is love, Lefh is life" Festung Support for the win
FIIn game know as Törttö ᶠᶸᶜᵏᵧₒᵤ
Best rank 1v1 - 33 Soviets, 2v2 - 1 Ostheer RT
4 Aug 2015, 03:30 AM
#10
Posts: 238
Yes tier 1 is still good even if you don't go snipers. Penals are great anti infantry units that can fight almost anything with flamers, esp once they get sprint which you run up to unit and burn them out. but you MUST use penals with M3 as a shock unit.
Also if you go tier 1, you must go guards for light AT b/c obv you don't have ATG. With 6 man penals and 6 man guards, you can almost combat anything and with proper mirco of your M3, you can early some very important early engagements as allies need. M3 pushes units, kills MGs and squad wipes retreating units. Also a really amazing thing about it, is you can get lucky and spot OKW placing their med HQ and you can kill it before it finishes.
From there, it never hurts to go M5 half track, it's just a solid unti now and you can reinforce on the field and moah down those krauts.
Also if you go tier 1, you must go guards for light AT b/c obv you don't have ATG. With 6 man penals and 6 man guards, you can almost combat anything and with proper mirco of your M3, you can early some very important early engagements as allies need. M3 pushes units, kills MGs and squad wipes retreating units. Also a really amazing thing about it, is you can get lucky and spot OKW placing their med HQ and you can kill it before it finishes.
From there, it never hurts to go M5 half track, it's just a solid unti now and you can reinforce on the field and moah down those krauts.
5 Aug 2015, 12:53 PM
#11
Posts: 85
Try 2 penals, then 2 scout cars, flamers etc. It will work okay but never great. Against solely OKW (or a very grenadier-less Whermact) you'll have about 2 minutes of freedom before they really bring out some hard counters (schreck and 222) which make your scout cars useless.
Penals perform better than standard infantry, but it's really difficult to keep their effectiveness as the game goes by as flamethrowers aren't a great upgrade in most maps. T1 without snipers therefore peaks at around the 5 minute mark and then quickly drops off, whereas the a T2 build will stay relevant for most of the game.
Penals perform better than standard infantry, but it's really difficult to keep their effectiveness as the game goes by as flamethrowers aren't a great upgrade in most maps. T1 without snipers therefore peaks at around the 5 minute mark and then quickly drops off, whereas the a T2 build will stay relevant for most of the game.
5 Aug 2015, 13:27 PM
#12
Posts: 830
Snipers should have never made it into the game to begin with. Luckily the design isn't as flawed as it was in coh1.
If anything I find the German sniper to be a bigger nuisance, surviving direct mortar hits and even a katyusha rocket. If a mortar or a stray rocket or even a shreck lands on the two soviet snipers clumped up, they are dead.
Relic should just allow Ostheer squads to get 5 men, solves the problem with Soviet snipers. German sniper shouldn't have this survivalist status, it is ridiculous.
If anything I find the German sniper to be a bigger nuisance, surviving direct mortar hits and even a katyusha rocket. If a mortar or a stray rocket or even a shreck lands on the two soviet snipers clumped up, they are dead.
Relic should just allow Ostheer squads to get 5 men, solves the problem with Soviet snipers. German sniper shouldn't have this survivalist status, it is ridiculous.
5 Aug 2015, 18:42 PM
#13
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedPenals wont be able to carry you
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
5 Aug 2015, 19:07 PM
#14
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
T1 is actually quite effective vs OKW with penal spam. Especially if OKW has a forward medical truck. Once you have enough penals they'll be able to satchel wherever the OKW's medical truck is. m3s are also a plus to counter the kubel. Vs Ost however t1 is a little bit more difficult to pull off honestly, and I prob wouldn't recommend using it unless on close range maps since lmg grens will counter your penals pretty well.
5 Aug 2015, 19:09 PM
#15
Posts: 1122
On some maps you can open without snipers.
But play entirely without them? Its like playing wehr without support weapons.
But play entirely without them? Its like playing wehr without support weapons.
6 Aug 2015, 18:32 PM
#16
Posts: 1891
Penals are a great unit. M3 is awesome, and Snipers are great. Soviet T1 is great, in other words.
T1+T2 into call-in armor is my favorite Soviet strategy atm. Penals form a competent close range anti-infantry/building core. supported by Snipers, HMGs, mortars, and Shocks you can really beat the Axis at their own game of combined arms.
T1+T2 into call-in armor is my favorite Soviet strategy atm. Penals form a competent close range anti-infantry/building core. supported by Snipers, HMGs, mortars, and Shocks you can really beat the Axis at their own game of combined arms.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
7 Aug 2015, 13:23 PM
#17
Posts: 205
I sometimes grab T1 just for the m3 against okw.
30 Aug 2015, 18:24 PM
#18
Posts: 589
should Relic do something to address the M3's uselessness against Wehr?
31 Aug 2015, 16:56 PM
#19
Posts: 503
should Relic do something to address the M3's uselessness against Wehr?
Make the Faust have a shorter range but then maybe add some bonus to rear Faust shots to incentivize flanking of reckless M3. Faust is the only counter Wehr has in T1 against the scout car unless you get a vetted MG that can pop incendiary rounds. A good M3 player will likely just scoot out of the cone of fire though
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