Obersoldaten UP

I wouldn't agree that obers are UP but i definitely agree they are too expensive to reinforce. I think slightly reducing their reinforcement cost would be all that is needed.

They are overpriced for what they do. Initial purchase and reinforcement cost could use a reduction. Wouldn't mind seeing an STG44 cost reduction as well.

They are overpriced for what they do. Initial purchase and reinforcement cost could use a reduction. Wouldn't mind seeing an STG44 cost reduction as well.

This.^

IMO they are more inefficient than underpowered.

They'll do well if you put them into the field; the question is, why would you spend the manpower at all considering the many cheaper alternatives that come earlier, perform different roles, and won't compete queuing for tanks?
Sturms are close infnantry and can repair; Volks are larger, cheaper and have AT, Kubel can suppress and vehicles have armour. The only units tht Obers clearly outperform flat out is IR halftrack and Racketen. For very obvious reasons.

And that's ignoring all the doctrinal units, and most of THOSE units come earlier than Obers as well.

Vanilla Obers (no lmg) are not worth 400 MP for sure but they perform a lot better than a vanilla gren squad.

But yeah, as mentionned above OKW has more convenient and cheaper alternative that perform just as well considering their pricing.

A nice indirect buff however would be to spread the models, especially for all 4 man squads in the game; wipes are still happening too often.

As others have said they aren't UP they are just way to expensive for what they actually do. Fuss, JLI, even Sturms are more efficient. The only time I find myself getting them is if I need elite infantry because I went elite armored or Fort.

Then build standard grens instead.

I want to know how you can build grens as OKW kappa.




Obers are fine in damage , but not efficient.

400MP + 60 muny is too much but well we can leave this cost as it is (they get nice vet bonuses and still they ignore retreat bous with lmg)


What they badly need is reinforcement decrease (like sturms get last patch) from 50 to 40 (or a bit higher)

Because now its real pain in ass to reinforce them (1 scott ahot - 3 models death - 150 MP bleed for example , and when we compare they reinforce cost to guards with dp )

400MP + 60 muny is too much but well we can leave this cost as it is (they get nice vet bonuses and still they ignore retreat bous with lmg)

I'm pretty sure that their bonus accuracy vs retreating units got removed ages ago.

I'm pretty sure that their bonus accuracy vs retreating units got removed ages ago.

It never got removed, just decreased.

It never got removed, just decreased.

Well, I guess relic can't post accurate changelogs then

Updates for July 22nd, 2014:

Obersoldaten

- Armor from 1.25 to 1
- Received accuracy modifier from 0.87 to 0.7
- Removed bonus accuracy to retreating units

Source: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?q=Obersoldaten

they need to be cheaper mp wise and have their reinforce rate toned down like sturms.

Well, I guess relic can't post accurate changelogs then

Updates for July 22nd, 2014:

Obersoldaten

- Armor from 1.25 to 1
- Received accuracy modifier from 0.87 to 0.7
- Removed bonus accuracy to retreating units

Source: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?q=Obersoldaten

Oh well, perhaps I've missed it and it indeed doesn't apply anymore.
Still don't have much trouble doing retreat wipes with double ober.

Adjust either reinforce/initial cost BUT remove/tweak passive suppression and/or adjust veterancy.

I do like Obers as a infantry counter but the reinforcement cost is rather high. Reducing it to 45 and less reinforce time would be pleasant. I'd like to see the passive suppression be turned into a ability similar to Rear Echelon of suppressing one squad or maybe a small area to punish a group of squads. That way OKW has to spend munitions to suppress one squad rather a passive suppression. On the rest of Obers veterancy is fine by me considering the price of them and the purchase of the LMG.

Still don't have much trouble doing retreat wipes with double ober.

I think most elite infantry squads are capable of doing so.

Double Falls, double Shocks, double Guards, double Paras...even double PzGrens or BAR rifles can wipe retreating units. That's not really an indicator of cost-effectiveness IMO.

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Obers are fine. The fact that there are other viable infantry options means that they are balanced and not always the best choice. They cost a lot to reinforce (not much more than Falls tho) but OKW is definitely not MP starved.

Jaegers or Fusiliers are strong units but what if I went for fortifications, spec ops or elite armor?

The only thing that needs a cost reduction (or a small damage buff) is the IR StG package.

There is a fine line between "not always the best choice" and "normally never taken". Seeing Obers at all in high level play now is very rare. Mostly due to their inefficiency, high wipe chance, and how late they come in the game.

The LMG34 should be free, since they decided to reduce it's killing power. And the IR StG 44 needs it's old damage back or a cost reduction. Failing that Obers should just flat cost less to make and reinforce.

The LMG34 should be free, since they decided to reduce it's killing power. And the IR StG 44 needs it's old damage back or a cost reduction. Failing that Obers should just flat cost less to make and reinforce.

No. Better if OKW has more munition sinks. The LMG-Ober-variant of the MG34 is still a very good weapon surpassing the other LMGs. Only thing that may need looking at is the IR StG 44.

Things that need looking at are their veterancy as suppressing at vet 4 should be an ability or reworked while their survivability from the vet should be toned down. One hit of received accuracy is enough given they aren't mainline troops and already have that very good received accuracy. Once those are addressed, they can use lower reinforce as they will be less like terminators versus infantry.

No. Better if OKW has more munition sinks. The LMG-Ober-variant of the MG34 is still a very good weapon surpassing the other LMGs. Only thing that may need looking at is the IR StG 44.

Things that need looking at are their veterancy as suppressing at vet 4 should be an ability or reworked while their survivability from the vet should be toned down. One hit of received accuracy is enough given they aren't mainline troops and already have that very good received accuracy. Once those are addressed, they can use lower reinforce as they will be less like terminators versus infantry.

I think your forgetting why Ober's exist. They exist because OKW's main line infantry (volks) lacks any real sort of punch and cannot put out enough long range DPS on their own. They are supposed to be support by Sturms for close range and Obers for long.

Right now Obers are just "decent" at their job, which misses the point of the fact they are made to fill the hole of AI which OKW doesn't have on it's non-doc infantry. They have good vet and shine when they get there; but the challenge is avoiding squads wipes on them since they enter the game at a point in time were explosives are starting to ramp up in quantity.

Once upon a time MG's couldn't really do shit against infantry, that day is passed us. Obers getting their LMG (and thus the entire point of their existence) for free makes sense if it's going to do reduced damage.

A lot of people love to think about how shit was in the past and go "oh well it was OP then...." without thinking about the context of why it was OP in the first place. MG's are no longer shit and can actually kill things. The KT is no longer a Baneblade. Much of what made OKW "OP" is gone now (with good reason is most cases).

I don't care for their suppression at vet 4 and would happily see it removed if they got a little cost reduction so they were more sustainable.

i think the problem with obers is that they have no utility. the base squad does good damage but is unimpressive overall because all they do is damage and they don't do it in spikes. with the lmg they do REALLY good damage but it's still just high dps and they still don't have any utility. with vet 1 they get a little bit of utility but it's expensive and is pretty situational.

to compare them to grens (of which obers are basically a better version) they have the squad size, good long ranged damage, and good lmg upgrade of grens but lack the RG or pfaust which give grens more utility.

i think giving obers some kind of basic utility upgrade would make them a LOT more attractive. i think a RG would be OP on them and i'm not sure i want them to have a pfaust but i'm sure people could come up with something interesting and useful.

Its another SQUAD BUNCHING issue...

They would be fine if they wernt so easily and frequently 1 shot by a scott or mortar shell or demo charge.

Bunching currently is what makes OKW elite infantry so cost ineffective.

falshims and Obers are way too easy to 1 shot for a 400-460mp unit.

Not saying they need buffs (although falshims need a price reduction badly) but the bunching is what makes these units a liability rather than a strength.