ML-20 152mm Howitzer

This is not true, arty can still be taken out by directly targeting the gun. The grace provided to weapon teams does not apply to arty. When you see arty target the gun.

On a side note the IL-2 bombing run often decrews the gun and then another bomb hits destroying the low health gun. This may need to be looked at. On the other hand IL-2 is vulnerable to AA, warns the targeted player, and is slow to arrive.

How do you target the gun with a Stuka Zu Fuss barrage because I need to know, thanks in advance.

EDIT: And you can reduce the howitzer to 0 health but if the crew is alive it won't die; Iv had LeFH's with 0 gun health before but because I had a command tank and a bunch of reinforcement and healing bunkers they couldn't kill a single one.

Targeting the gun does nothing unless the crew dies. Sure you might damage the artillery piece but if you can't kill the crew...

How do you target the gun with a Stuka Zu Fuss barrage because I need to know, thanks in advance.

EDIT: And you can reduce the howitzer to 0 health but if the crew isn't alive it won't die; Iv had LeFH's with 0 gun health before but because I had a command tank and a bunch of reinforcement and healing bunkers they couldn't kill a single one.

Targeting the gun does nothing unless the crew dies. Sure you might damage the artillery piece but if you can't kill the crew...

You are still incorrect. Just checked this in cheat mod with Soviet and German howitzer.

Howitzers can be killed by targeting the gun with tanks (aka just right click on it). When it happens the gun and all crew die as they did before if the gun health falls to 0. Protection of gun by having crew does not apply to this artillery. Said another way, having crew around a gun does not help the gun survive.

Having decrewed guns proceeds as normal (as you would expect) with gun being destroyed when health falls to zero. Please upload a replay of gun going to 0 and surviving. The only thing I can think is that the CmdTank did something weird.

I see what you did with the first part of your comment. Since the question is insincere I will answer it only briefly. Targeting, in the case of artillery, is based on the players ability to drop the maximum amount of damage on an area since you cannot directly select a unit to hit.

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good post. +1.

You are still incorrect. Just checked this in cheat mod with Soviet and German howitzer.

Howitzers can be killed by targeting the gun with tanks (aka just right click on it). When it happens the gun and all crew die as they did before if the gun health falls to 0. Protection of gun by having crew does not apply to this artillery. Said another way, having crew around a gun does not help the gun survive.

Having decrewed guns proceeds as normal (as you would expect) with gun being destroyed when health falls to zero. Please upload a replay of gun going to 0 and surviving. The only thing I can think is that the CmdTank did something weird.

I see what you did with the first part of your comment. Since the question is insincere I will answer it only briefly. Targeting, in the case of artillery, is based on the players ability to drop the maximum amount of damage on an area since you cannot directly select a unit to hit.

It was an insincere question because you acted like I didn't know how to target the gun. And yes I have had guns refuse to die despite the health of the gun being at 0 and the crew still being alive. Have you been using explosive or ballistic weapons to test? Are you using bombing strikes or just tanks?

Also recrewed weapons are weird, for instance they often keep the old vet (because it applies to the weapon ~just relic things~ ) and no longer get received accuracy while crewed.

I love that commanders that haven't seen the light of day for almost 2 years are starting to see some time in the spotlight,

They got a triple buff. Soviet stock army was made better, ~some~ call in's were killed or pushed back, and they just got a raw direct buff. Unfortunately this combined means matches often just turn into point and click adventures with players just insta countering or getting raped or having endless artillery duels that nobody wins.

This statement would be true in the previous patch were Soviets stock army was ass.

yea yea soviet stock army SOMEHOW got strong,let me give you a tip SOVIET STOCK UNITS ARE AWFUL.so quit whining and learn to adapt

Most posts here that declare the ML-20 OP and UNSTOPABLE are laughable,and the AXIS fanboys that havent played SOVIETS think they know how "easy"it is to win with it when your limited to those "good"stock units to survive with out good medium tanks or heavy tanks,so laughable.

ML-20 is indeed OP.

I like the fix for precision strike by replacing it with extra shells. I would have been satisfied if it was changed to 4+2 shots, and at most it should have been 6+2. But certainly not 8+2, that is just too much. When me and my teammate play a 2v2 against either double OKW or Ostheer players without CAS or something similar we have a good chuckle about how we are going to blow the shit out of them with ML-20s.

Imagelessbean is right. howi guns don't have the magical as-long-as-i-have-a-crew protection.

tested with ml20, b4 and lefh.

Imagelessbean is right. howi guns don't have the magical as-long-as-i-have-a-crew protection.

tested with ml20, b4 and lefh.

What weapons are you testing it with? And have you tried recrewing them and then seeing if they die without a dead crew?

EDIT: I ask because recrewing mechanics are wonky, although I guess if they die regardless of crew health that's nice if you can get at them to shoot at

What weapons are you testing it with? And have you tried recrewing them and then seeing if they die without a dead crew?

p4. i kept reinforcing the crews of the guns. one time the b4 died with 5 men all alive. they routed like cowards once the gun died.

doesn't matter if recrewed or not. tried with cons.

p4. i kept reinforcing the crews of the guns. one time the b4 died with 5 men all alive. they routed like cowards once the gun died.

doesn't matter if recrewed or not. tried with cons.

So it looks like Relic didn't apply the new no more routing thing to howitzers, interesting. Still not much hope again players who build their howitzers inside their base/just outside.

Just played a game where my opponent killed a PII and two squads reinforcing in HQ with a single barrage, then destroying my HQ buildings in the next minute or so.

Loving this patch relic, it's really diversified gameplay now every game against soviets is a re-enactment of the battle of the Somme

152 mm mean no IS-2, no T-34/85 = easier game

lol

Just to clarify for your general forum pleasure:

More damage means a much bigger 'kill AoE' which is the area in which an explosive will do enough damage to kill an entity outright. This value is what really contributes to squad wipes.

Example values: Lets say howitzer dmg profile is set so that damage halves at radius 1; and halves again at 2. So, the LeFH doing 160 dmg will have a kill AoE of 1 (160/2 = 80). ML-20 will have a kill radius of just shy of 2 (300/4 = 75, so a bit less than 2 or approximately 2). Mind you, I'm approximating a kill radius of 2 because its easy to visualize and these are all example values. So anyway, ML-20 will have a kill radius of 2. This translates to double the kill radius and hence 4 times the kill area. Because area of a circle is the square of radius times pi.

This is also the reason why KT wipes squads left and right. Its damage profile is that of a normal tank gun, but it does 240 dmg instead of the 'standard' 160 so it has a bigger AoE which kills things.

(And was why the HM-38 used to be such a beast. It did 120 dmg instead of the 'standard' 80 that other mortars do. Now, thankfully, its 80)

OH: Stuka Diver Bomber > ML-20. CAS, Jaeger Armor Doc, OH Howi, etc.
OKW: Scavenger Doc arty > ML-20. On Smaller maps: Stuka. On Larger maps: call-in arty or ballsy rushes in.

Best way to fix arty problem(imo): Increase reload time to allow for repair/healing time of the enemy, but not for too long.

OH: Stuka Diver Bomber > ML-20. CAS, Jaeger Armor Doc, OH Howi, etc.
OKW: Scavenger Doc arty > ML-20. On Smaller maps: Stuka. On Larger maps: call-in arty or ballsy rushes in.

Best way to fix arty problem(imo): Increase reload time to allow for repair/healing time of the enemy, but not for too long.

Scavenge doc arty reliable? wtf

The LefH's counter-barrage only does more damage than the basic barrage (but still doing 100 less than the ML-20's) while retaining the same scatter. Also it doesn't get the vet bonus's either so you actually better off just shooting with the regular gun.

If the ML-20 decides to shoot back he will kill you, since he does 300 damage per shot (while being just as likely to hit you). While the LeFH only has 400 HP. If he hits you twice? dead

Also Relic still hasn't fixed the fact it loses it's Vet 2 bonus's when it hits vet 3

Or... make them unable to shoot into the base, while howies cannot be built inside the base.

Or... make them unable to shoot into the base, while howies cannot be built inside the base.

This would still leave OKW holding the bag.

This would still leave OKW holding the bag.

OKW can place trucks in base without any penalties you know.
Play it safe players do it.