Replace Ost Tank Smoke with Launched Smoke

You still have to pay for it.

Yeah and? You think I care about using munitions on smoke if it means I can totally negate all my enemies defensive efforts?

"Hey guys obviously the maxim and other allied MG's are not preforming up to standard so lets buff them"

"good idea mate and while were at it lets give all Ostheer vehicles that can use panzer tactican if you have the commander equipped be able to totally negate them by throwing smoke everywere

Maxims in the way? Just through smoke from your 222's and HT's to cover your movement. They try to reposition? Just throw more smoke on them because you have 3 other vehicles that can do it too!

Sherman smoke is non-doc and free.

Munitions...

Disagree, Ostheer's smoke is doctrinal and costs munitions, Sherman smoke is non-doc and free. Smoke isn't even the primary 'get-out-of-jail-free-card', that's Blitz. But nobody wants to talk about nerfing Blitz for some reason.

Smoke has counter-play in the form of Attack Ground, Blitz has no counter-play and just lets your turbocharged Panther zoom out of danger in a second.

Awww.. you don't mean that?
Pop a smoke and roll back, win.

Yeah and? You think I care about using munitions on smoke if it means I can totally negate all my enemies defensive efforts?

"Hey guys obviously the maxim and other allied MG's are not preforming up to standard so lets buff them"

"good idea mate and while were at it lets give all Ostheer vehicles that can use panzer tactican if you have the commander equipped be able to totally negate them by throwing smoke everywere

Maxims in the way? Just through smoke from your 222's and HT's to cover your movement. They try to reposition? Just throw more smoke on them because you have 3 other vehicles that can do it too!

... and you are out of munitions. Each useage of the smoke is expensive, which means that you will be absolutely drained.

Ostheer isn't exactly a faction that floats munitions, and as a result if you smoke spam, you will have 0 lmgs, 0 tellers, 0 panzershrecks, no riflenades, etc.

If it becomes a problem, it can always be tweaked. It will definitely be less gimicky than the micro free get out of jail free card that Panzer tactician is.

I disagree as well

Like Mr. Someguy the Panzer Tactician is a doctrinal ability that's something the Ostheer player doesn't always have while Sherman's and a couple other American tanks always have this ability.

If it changes, i'd rather then that Panzer Tactician for Ostheer be a non-doctrinal ability as well... wait... what if Blitz and the smoke thing where swapped? of course after the smoke is changed into a shooting smoke ability like the Shermans ._.

Could be an improvement. But they'd also need to get rid of Scott's and M20's non-doctrinal get-out-of-jail free smoke too.

Awww.. you don't mean that?
Pop a smoke and roll back, win.

Pop Blitz and roll back, it's faster and safer.

... and you are out of munitions. Each useage of the smoke is expensive, which means that you will be absolutely drained.

Ostheer isn't exactly a faction that floats munitions, and as a result if you smoke spam, you will have 0 lmgs, 0 tellers, 0 panzershrecks, no riflenades, etc.

If it becomes a problem, it can always be tweaked. It will definitely be less gimicky than the micro free get out of jail free card that Panzer tactician is.

If you are snared and have engine damage smoke ain't going to save your ass. It can be countered by attack ground. Panzer tactician is nowhere near a 100% effective get of jail free card all the time.

And to be honest; why do we need to nerf the survivability of Ostheer tanks even more? Right now Ostheer gets it's mediums dead last due to extremely high teching costs meaning that when you finally do get your shit out the door you have a nice amount of AT guns and other anti-armor vehicles to great you.

When I play OKW I can get a PIV with skirts that can bounce some shots on occasion and it hits the field at a time were AT hasn't reach that overwhelming state were you need to really be on the ball with micro. The Ostheer PIV comes later, has not skirts and only costs 10 less fuel while having joke tier veterancy compared to the OKW PIV.


You might say "But Alex the PIV gets skirts with vet!" yes that's wonderful but by the time you actually get to vet 2 the AT on the field has escalated to the point were it just doesn't matter because your going to get penned by everything anyway. I would be fine with fucking with the survivability of Ostheer tanks if they were OP but they aren't.

1v1 really opened by eyes to how fucked Ostheer is by teching costs, I had absolutely zero reason to not just go mobile defense because it gave me a light vehicle that could actually fight shit and a PIV that gave me bonus's and preforms just as well versus's infantry anyway without having to pay out the ass for an actual PIV.

+1. Smoke is an abuse

I do think its fitting on tanks like the tiger. Also wish it had S-mine launcher over blitzkrieg.

No thanks

+1

It will give get of of jail card away whitch is gr8 and will give german tanks more utility whitch is even better

Disagree, Ostheer's smoke is doctrinal and costs munitions, Sherman smoke is non-doc and free. Smoke isn't even the primary 'get-out-of-jail-free-card', that's Blitz. But nobody wants to talk about nerfing Blitz for some reason.

I disagree with you . You CANT counter smoe with attack ground becuase attack ground is less acuratte than normal attack + attack ground is so micro intensive as sherman smoe i think, and some ability that require micro to counter should coust some micro skill too

Smoke has counter-play in the form of Attack Ground, Blitz has no counter-play and just lets your turbocharged Panther zoom out of danger in a second.

Turbo panther was nerfed to ground in last patches. THx relic and god.
If blitzkrieg cant be used on reverse everything will be fine

Turbo panther was nerfed to ground in last patches. THx relic and god.
If blitzkrieg cant be used on reverse everything will be fine

There's no distinction between Forward or Reverse in the stats, and I doubt they're going to reprogram the entire movement system to include one, so your suggestion is technically impossible.

There's no distinction between Forward or Reverse in the stats, and I doubt they're going to reprogram the entire movement system to include one, so your suggestion is technically impossible.

Im not saying it in programing. Im saying this like option how to make blitzkireg viaable without nerfing it to the ground. If they wantm they can program it ,im sure.

Im not saying it in programing. Im saying this like option how to make blitzkireg viaable without nerfing it to the ground. If they wantm they can program it ,im sure.

You're not understanding. There isn't "Forward Movement" and "Backwards Movement", there is only "Movement" and that's all the game sees. You can't nerf it in specifically one direction because there aren't any directions, forward and backward movement use the same stat. If a tank has 5 speed, it'll move at 5 speed whether it's going forward or backward. If it hits a mine and slows down to 2 speed, it'll go 2 speed forward and backward.

You're trying to turn a doctrinal ability into a copy of what Ostheer can already do through mortars.
At least Panzer Tactics requires munitions and cooldown for it.

So no, redundant at best and at worst adds yet another Ostheer a doctrinal ability into the garbage pile.

You're not understanding. There isn't "Forward Movement" and "Backwards Movement", there is only "Movement" and that's all the game sees. You can't nerf it in specifically one direction because there aren't any directions, forward and backward movement use the same stat. If a tank has 5 speed, it'll move at 5 speed whether it's going forward or backward. If it hits a mine and slows down to 2 speed, it'll go 2 speed forward and backward.

I m understanding you but you are not understanding me. Im saying it cant be that hard to make forward moving and bacward moving, both can have smae speed and blitzkireg will not work on bacward moving. problem solved. It doesnt need 7 days of programing

I m understanding you but you are not understanding me. Im saying it cant be that hard to make forward moving and bacward moving, both can have smae speed and blitzkireg will not work on bacward moving. problem solved. It doesnt need 7 days of programing

You'll be surprised.

If you are snared and have engine damage smoke ain't going to save your ass. It can be countered by attack ground. Panzer tactician is nowhere near a 100% effective get of jail free card all the time.

And if you aren't snared but at low HP, you just pop smoke, reset all enemy targeting, and blitz/ back away. Attack ground with just about any weapon has much worse accuracy when done into smoke.

And to be honest; why do we need to nerf the survivability of Ostheer tanks even more? Right now Ostheer gets it's mediums dead last due to extremely high teching costs meaning that when you finally do get your shit out the door you have a nice amount of AT guns and other anti-armor vehicles to great you.

I'm confused, one post ago you were talking about how new smoke would be much more OP than current smoke. Which is it?

USF armor makes do against TWP AT with their smoke, why can't Ostheer armor that doesn't have to worry about being stunned do the same? All new smoke does is make the one click escape no longer a thing. You can still use smoke, you just have to think about it earlier.