USF Rangers
30 Jul 2015, 08:29 AM
#21
Posts: 172
This is not a balance thread, anyway
30 Jul 2015, 08:34 AM
#22
Posts: 48
I don't think you can give any unit Thompsons off the bat unless they're really expensive MP-wise or toned down as they deal a ton of damage within their intended range.
Why not? Sturmpios come with ARs that absolutely SHRED infantry at close range and they come stock and in the first 60 seconds of a game? Panzergrens come stock with ARs and can be upgradeable with anti tank capabilities that absolutely annihilate allied tanks.
And if you're right, that's fine, you then gave a good answer to the problem. Give us rangers with stock thompsons, but also make their manppwer cost equal to the damage that they can deal. Hell, charge me 500 manpower (joking) - I don't even care! Lol. Just give me something else to use other than riflemen!
There should be absolutely no reason why the USF can't have an infantry squad come on the map (sort of) late game and be immediately powerful at close range engagements.
30 Jul 2015, 08:59 AM
#23
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Why not? Sturmpios come with ARs that absolutely SHRED infantry at close range and they come stock and in the first 60 seconds of a game? Panzergrens come stock with ARs and can be upgradeable with anti tank capabilities that absolutely annihilate allied tanks.
And if you're right, that's fine, you then gave a good answer to the problem. Give us rangers with stock thompsons, but also make their manppwer cost equal to the damage that they can deal. Hell, charge me 500 manpower (joking) - I don't even care! Lol. Just give me something else to use other than riflemen!
There should be absolutely no reason why the USF can't have an infantry squad come on the map (sort of) late game and be immediately powerful at close range engagements.
So a copy of Paratroopers with thompsons ?
Or Maybe the rangers wee see in the campain ? 6 ( or 5 i dont remember ) guys with thompsons, can upgrade with 2 Shreks, and the cool thing is that, they can equip or not them ( like Sturmpioneer with minesweeper )
30 Jul 2015, 09:14 AM
#24
Posts: 1216
So a copy of Paratroopers with thompsons ?
Or Maybe the rangers wee see in the campain ? 6 ( or 5 i dont remember ) guys with thompsons, can upgrade with 2 Shreks, and the cool thing is that, they can equip or not them ( like Sturmpioneer with minesweeper )
I don't think that's a very fair comparison, given that paratroopers can drop anywhere on the map, can upgrade to either Thompson or LMGs, and can reinforce near beacons; Rangers ought to have none of those while still having hefty manpower cost, so if anything Rangers are less efficient. By that logic, Obersoldaten are complete clones of Volks without panzerschreck, and that unit's not only in the game, but also non-doctrinal.
IIRC Rangers in Ardennes Assault are only 4 men, and armed with Thompsons and can swap for bazooka/ panzerschreck if you pick those perks. They're not so much Paratrooper clones but Panzergrenadier clones. Even if you applied all the perks, Rangers in AA still differed considerably than paratroopers, the comparison is almost as close as Conscripts goes to T-34.
And it's not like we're suggesting this call-in comes with Pershing and Jumbo alongside P-47 rocket strike. It would be almost as ridiculous as Mechanized Assault (which does just that, so...).
30 Jul 2015, 09:40 AM
#25
4 Posts: 444
I'm the biggest USF fanboy, with that out the way. Nerf rifles to con stats remove bars, then sure, add non doc rangers.
We already have para with with thompsons, they're exactly like rangers. But yeah they're doctirnal. That's why we have bars and the current riflemen.
We already have para with with thompsons, they're exactly like rangers. But yeah they're doctirnal. That's why we have bars and the current riflemen.
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30 Jul 2015, 09:57 AM
#26
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
No matter with Rangers or something else, USF need somekind of infantry at frontline other than Rifles and Paras since you already have 3/Rifles + Officer by 3CPs and calling another squad is not always best solution.
So Rifles, Paras and AssaultEngis (hardly frontlines but not bad DPS so let's keep them here).
OST: Grens, PanzerGrens, AssaultGrens, Osttruppen, Stormtroopers.
Sov: Cons, Penals, Shocks, Guards, Partisants
OKW: SP, Volks, Fusiliers, Jaegers, Fals, Obers.
Rifles, AssaultEngis and Paras look miserable when compre to other faction in terms of options you have.
So Rifles, Paras and AssaultEngis (hardly frontlines but not bad DPS so let's keep them here).
OST: Grens, PanzerGrens, AssaultGrens, Osttruppen, Stormtroopers.
Sov: Cons, Penals, Shocks, Guards, Partisants
OKW: SP, Volks, Fusiliers, Jaegers, Fals, Obers.
Rifles, AssaultEngis and Paras look miserable when compre to other faction in terms of options you have.
30 Jul 2015, 11:42 AM
#27
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Make rifles scale better with vet -> no longer need lategame elite infantry.
As the only stock fighting squad, they need to be able to do their role throughout the game.
As the only stock fighting squad, they need to be able to do their role throughout the game.
30 Jul 2015, 11:49 AM
#28
Posts: 1891
Rangers would a Captain squad, if every model was a captain and on me! affected itself.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
30 Jul 2015, 12:03 PM
#29
Posts: 484
Actually, doctrinal Rangers wouldn't necessarily need to have a specific role, or even be particularly distinct from Paras to work. Paras are only going to appear in Airborne commanders, associated with other airborne-related commander abilities. As things stand, this means no non-airborne commander can reasonably include call-in infantry, but any new infantry unit like Rangers could be included in a multitude of commanders, just as Soviets have multiple commanders using shocks and guards.
Given the availability of the lmg/zook rack, as pointed out above, a notional Ranger unit could just be plain tougher - more HP, some received accuracy reduction, that sort of thing perhaps.
Given the availability of the lmg/zook rack, as pointed out above, a notional Ranger unit could just be plain tougher - more HP, some received accuracy reduction, that sort of thing perhaps.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
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― Oscar Wilde
30 Jul 2015, 17:06 PM
#30
Posts: 424 | Subs: 2
The only way I could see Rangers being added is if they were a long range squad considering all non-doctrine USF forces excel at mid-close range combat. If Rangers are mid to close range oriented squad it would be similar to OKW with Jaeger, Falls, & Panzerfusiliers call ins. Being the main infantry (excluding Falls) with Volks becoming a support unit. Rangers simply would have no place in the USF unless they performed something that other USF units don't perform already. I could maybe see Rangers specializing in behind enemy line combat. Like mines, camo, bonuses further from units, etc. Relic is already looking into scaling Riflemen and USF in general so we just have to wait and see what Sept. 3 brings.
30 Jul 2015, 17:47 PM
#31
Posts: 255
Adding on to what David said, maybe Rangers can use anti infantry mines or other special abilities. In case you guys haven't noticed USF is the only faction without AI mines, and the only heavy AT mines come with a single unit. If you tech Captain, you don't have access to the mines unless you back tech. Not gamebreaking, but a bit wonky considering the accessibilty of all other factions.
With that being said I fully agree with the posters advocating for more USF diversity. OKW has a plethora of viable units spanning from call ins to base units. I do not see how USF doesn't deserve the same.
Relic has already mentioned they're "looking in" to USF. But I don't have high hopes especially considering they have a full new faction on their hands.
I also do not understand the people who are saying USF doesn't need something else. They most certainly do, because of the monotonous USF meta that revolves around riflemen every single game.
With that being said I fully agree with the posters advocating for more USF diversity. OKW has a plethora of viable units spanning from call ins to base units. I do not see how USF doesn't deserve the same.
Relic has already mentioned they're "looking in" to USF. But I don't have high hopes especially considering they have a full new faction on their hands.
I also do not understand the people who are saying USF doesn't need something else. They most certainly do, because of the monotonous USF meta that revolves around riflemen every single game.
30 Jul 2015, 23:05 PM
#32
Posts: 758
Adding on to what David said, maybe Rangers can use anti infantry mines or other special abilities. In case you guys haven't noticed USF is the only faction without AI mines, and the only heavy AT mines come with a single unit. If you tech Captain, you don't have access to the mines unless you back tech. Not gamebreaking, but a bit wonky considering the accessibilty of all other factions.
With that being said I fully agree with the posters advocating for more USF diversity. OKW has a plethora of viable units spanning from call ins to base units. I do not see how USF doesn't deserve the same.
Relic has already mentioned they're "looking in" to USF. But I don't have high hopes especially considering they have a full new faction on their hands.
I also do not understand the people who are saying USF doesn't need something else. They most certainly do, because of the monotonous USF meta that revolves around riflemen every single game.
true dat and relic cant give USF units of hand-me-down quality no more of that plz we need new hardware and its gotta be tough and hard hitting to be on par with the axis
30 Jul 2015, 23:27 PM
#33
Posts: 20
That's why Obers cost 400MP + 70MU to be fully effective. They're the most expensive Elite Infantry.
Paras cost 380MP + 120MU to be fully effective. By my estimate that makes them more expensive than opbers.
30 Jul 2015, 23:35 PM
#34
Posts: 4928
Paras cost 380MP + 120MU to be fully effective. By my estimate that makes them more expensive than opbers.
But they don't require it. Paratrooper's rifles are very effective on their own, they're capable of beating Assault Grenadiers at all ranges.
The Dual M1919 upgrade just goes into the same Cheese territory that Obers used to inhabit imo.
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31 Jul 2015, 01:28 AM
#35
Posts: 61
I'm still at a loss as to why we have not got any new commanders for the OKW and the US. Shit, the commanders are already built into AA, just port some of those into MP...
31 Jul 2015, 04:14 AM
#36
Posts: 1216
Not their priority.
Bet it's higher than War Spoils though, because new commanders at least bring some level of guarantee for profit. But then Rangers through Fox Company themselves is DLC for AA...
Bet it's higher than War Spoils though, because new commanders at least bring some level of guarantee for profit. But then Rangers through Fox Company themselves is DLC for AA...
31 Jul 2015, 04:22 AM
#37
Posts: 432
Why not? Sturmpios come with ARs that absolutely SHRED infantry at close range and they come stock and in the first 60 seconds of a game? Panzergrens come stock with ARs and can be upgradeable with anti tank capabilities that absolutely annihilate allied tanks.
And if you're right, that's fine, you then gave a good answer to the problem. Give us rangers with stock thompsons, but also make their manppwer cost equal to the damage that they can deal. Hell, charge me 500 manpower (joking) - I don't even care! Lol. Just give me something else to use other than riflemen!
There should be absolutely no reason why the USF can't have an infantry squad come on the map (sort of) late game and be immediately powerful at close range engagements.
Just gotta point out that Sturmpioneers can't really hit jack shit outside of fisting distance. Just like old shocktroops were. It's pretty damn frustrating.
31 Jul 2015, 05:13 AM
#38
Posts: 1891
Just gotta point out that Sturmpioneers can't really hit jack shit outside of fisting distance. Just like old shocktroops were. It's pretty damn frustrating.
They do okay damage at the range in between medium and long. Not Pzgrens of course, but Sturms counter with utility, T0, and vet 5.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
31 Jul 2015, 20:48 PM
#39
4 Posts: 444
Just gotta point out that Sturmpioneers can't really hit jack shit outside of fisting distance. Just like old shocktroops were. It's pretty damn frustrating.
WutFace, I thought Sturmpio's did more damage then shocks at medium range. When they stand still they do great burst damage.
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31 Jul 2015, 20:52 PM
#40
Posts: 141
This is my 2 cents on how rangers should be implemented:
2CP Rangers 380MP: 5 man squad with 15% received accuracy buff. They have sprint, cooked grenades. They are all armed with Garands. Unit has unique option to pick up to 3 weapons instead of the normal 2. Vet 1 bonus is sticky bombs - AT 'grenade' that does little damage but higher potential for more severe snares.
2CP Thompson SMG: Adds Thompson to weapon rack 1x for 30MU OR 2x thopmsons cost 60 MU and only take up 1 weapon slot. In that case Rangers would only have 2 weapon slots available.
2CP Rangers 380MP: 5 man squad with 15% received accuracy buff. They have sprint, cooked grenades. They are all armed with Garands. Unit has unique option to pick up to 3 weapons instead of the normal 2. Vet 1 bonus is sticky bombs - AT 'grenade' that does little damage but higher potential for more severe snares.
2CP Thompson SMG: Adds Thompson to weapon rack 1x for 30MU OR 2x thopmsons cost 60 MU and only take up 1 weapon slot. In that case Rangers would only have 2 weapon slots available.
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