volksgrenadier modernization MP-40 and Senior Sergeant

Disagree, that's way too similar to Panzerfusiliers.

Well, then what do you suggest? Any weapon upgrade existing in Axis will make volks to resemble other units.
Maybe AT rifle, but that's too old weapon for volks and not designed for infantry...not even automatic.



OR

We can just let them be as they are.

Well, then what do you suggest? Any weapon upgrade existing in Axis will make volks to resemble other units.
Maybe AT rifle, but that's too old weapon for volks and not designed for infantry...not even automatic.

At this point, I'd rather they just rename Volks to something generic like "Landser" or "Frontkämpfer". Or just call them what they are, "RPG Suicide Squads". Relic's design for Volks does not resemble Volksgrenadier Divisions at all, they have nothing in common and the name Volksgrenadier is perplexing. Their design for Sturmpioneers and Obersoldaten make a real Volksgrenadier unit unfortunately redundant.

At this point, I'd rather they just rename Volks to something generic like "Landser" or "Frontkämpfer". Or just call them what they are, "RPG Suicide Squads". Relic's design for Volks does not resemble Volksgrenadier Divisions at all, they have nothing in common and the name Volksgrenadier is perplexing. Their design for Sturmpioneers and Obersoldaten make a real Volksgrenadier unit unfortunately redundant.

Hmm, good suggestion.
I'd be glad it to be renamed, but Relic never change the stupid name 'conscript' also.

Hmm, good suggestion.
I'd be glad it to be renamed, but Relic never change the stupid name 'conscript' also.

They changed the name for Honor Guards, and they were more deserving of that name than current Volks are of theirs, but that was before release. Assault Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers have more in common with the "Volksgrenadier" name than Volks. The defining feature of a Volksgrenadier Division's loadout was that they had more more SMG's, AR's, and LMG's.

There's even the misconception that the MP 40 was the primary weapon of the German Soldier, because of Volksgrenadiers.

IMO just make Volks 280, reinforce 24, give squad mp40s. When moved to bhq they'll need this.

IMO just make Volks 280, reinforce 24, give squad mp40s. When moved to bhq they'll need this.

Make obers doctrinal and we gotta deal sir.

IMO just make Volks 280, reinforce 24, give squad mp40s. When moved to bhq they'll need this.

So make them slightly worse than Assault Grens... wow
And to make backbone infantry to close combat unit is ridiculous idea.

You should think why moving volks to bhq was rejected in alpha.

Yeah giving OKW a good AI volk is against OKW design. Doctrinal obers would be nice, they would fit into spec ops doctrine nicely. Think that nerfing price of BHQ and mech HQ to 80 and giving mech obers could work too. This only if kubel is changed so that it can cap but not suppress.

They changed the name for Honor Guards, and they were more deserving of that name than current Volks are of theirs, but that was before release. Assault Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers have more in common with the "Volksgrenadier" name than Volks. The defining feature of a Volksgrenadier Division's loadout was that they had more more SMG's, AR's, and LMG's.

There's even the misconception that the MP 40 was the primary weapon of the German Soldier, because of Volksgrenadiers.

Hmm.. that's why there is a weapon named k98 honor guards!
I never knew that

Thanks for info.

Hmm.. that's why there is a weapon named k98 honor guards!
I never knew that

Thanks for info.

Yeah, Honor Guards = Obersoldaten. Volks still call them Honor Guards in the unit chatter.

Make obers doctrinal and we gotta deal sir.

So Obers are still a problem for you?

And to make backbone infantry to close combat unit is ridiculous idea.

Conscripts ppsh cry somewhere silently now.

About the assault-officer - if it moved from doctrine in the basic structure of the OKW units only one unit on the battlefield.
Its task is to strengthen the OKW infantry at an early stage and to maintain its survivability under enemy fire.
I watched a lot of games against OKW USA and the USSR - against rifles OKW volksgrenadier even as some, but against the Maxim gun+ recruits they are inferior even with the assault engineers.
The main reason for the construction of 6-7 units of volksgrenadiers is an attempt to repel the attacks and to hold the territory. Due to the number of rifles.
Let's look at the recruits of the red army - doctrines allow them to issue PPSH-41 - giving them DPS and survivability at the expense of the number of soldiers in the unit.

-What do you replace this doctrinal unit call-in with if it's taken from a commander and made into core army?
-Numbers is the reason why Volksgrenadiers are used in quantity, for short-ranged jobs you train Sturmpioniers. Where do they factor into this step? Sturmpioniers for their part are pretty good at the short-ranged job too.
-Conscript Ppsh-41 Kits don't improve close-range DPS but does not affect survivability or reduce the number of men in a squad. The only reason THAT idea works is because Soviets have zero non-doctrinal short-ranged infantry. And Shock Troops work much better due to grenades and armour, so the argument about Ppsh-1 upgrade is moot, it's actually one of the sh***ier upgrades.

STG-44 it's too big for volksgrenadiers. According to the version of the game - it recruits + a few veterans. So they need to upgrade the squad leader, as a 6 member group. And it needs to be armed with a good weapon, which corresponds to the unit - and this GW-43. Also there remains the problem of smoke and flame throwers for OKW as a fraction.

MP-40 will allow OKW to suppress spam tactics Maxim machine guns at the expense of call from the flanks and strong DPS in melee.

According to the text of the game. Which means jack sh** when you consider all the other unit/ bulletin/ ability descriptions that have similar errors.
Giving the "squad leader" a superior weapon does what exactly? One guy with G43 isn't going to make a difference, not unless you want the other unique attributes like sniping, in which case they turn from being too similar to Sturms to being too similar to Jaegers/ Panzerfusiliers ...which is what other people have already said.

Smoke and flamethrowers are another issue, and MP40s/ sergeant for Volksgrenadiers doesn't touch that. I recommend you make a separate thread on that.

STG-44 it's too big for volksgrenadiers.

Wrong, StG-44's were in widespread use by Volksgrenadier Divisions in 1944 and 1945. Once again, the defining feature of a Volksgrenadier Division was the widespread use of automatic weaponry. Volksgrenadier Divisions were undermanned and undertrained, and the widespread use of automatic weapons was meant to offset this.

Here are Volksgrenadiers in the Ardennes using Sturmgewehrs:

You know I've tried actually looking up where people got the idea of Volksgrenadiers = MP44-heavy users, but I've not found one source that supports that. Of course we got this picture (which is everyone's argument to support the idea), but haven't found neither context nor detailed information from it.

Maybe Sturmpioniers are Volksgrenadiers?

You know I've tried actually looking up where people got the idea of Volksgrenadiers = MP44-heavy users, but I've not found one source that supports that. Of course we got this picture (which is everyone's argument to support the idea), but haven't found neither context nor detailed information from it.

Wikipedia

The units also had a higher proportion of submachineguns and light automatic weapons and thus relied more on short-range firepower than in standard German Army infantry units. Automatic weapons like the new "wonder weapon" Sturmgewehr 44 and anti-tank weaponry like the single shot panzerfaust were also used by Volksgrenadier units.

But wiki's not good enough, so:

The Volks Grenadier Battalion, 1944 to 1945

Platoon HQ still consisted of a Commander and two messengers, all three men armed with machine pistols, plus a stretcher bearer with a pistol. There were also two rifle armed drivers for the Platoon's horse drawn transport, but there was no longer a spare light machine gun available. Each of the three Rifle Squads was armed as those in the Grenadier Battalion, the leader and one man carrying machine pistols, a light machine gunner with a pistol and MG34 or MG42, plus six men armed with rifles. In the third Squad, three of the rifles were equipped with grenade launchers.

The other two Platoons of the Company however were radically different. They were termed Machine Pistol Platoons, and here is where there is room for both interpretation and confusion. The KStN tables for the Volks Grenadier units issued in September 1944 refer only to machine pistols, which until that point in the war had always meant either an MP40 or similar 9-mm calibre submachine gun. In late 1943 however, a new and very different weapon had appeared, which was also known as a machine pistol.

The MP43 would go on to be known by a variety of different names. While referred to as a machine pistol, it fired a unique 7.92-mm round very different from that used by German rifles and machine guns proper. The 7.92-mm kurz, or short round, was designed only for ranges of up to around 400 metres. This reduction in recoil allowed the weapon to fire on fully automatic while retaining controllability, so it could be used for both aimed fire at medium range and burst fire for the close assault. It was fed from a distinctive curved thirty round magazine, which made it difficult to use from a prone position. In 1944 the MP43 became the MP44, and later that year the Stumgewehr 44 (Stg44), or assault rifle. It was intended that the Stg44 would go on to replace both the 1898 Mauser bolt action rifle and the MP40 machine pistol, and to this end a new Machine Pistol Platoon organisation was brought in with the Volks Grenadiers.

The two Machine Pistol Platoons were re-titled Sturm or Assault Platoons, with the first and second Squads now each of an NCO and seven men, each armed with the Stg44. The third Squad had an NCO and five men each carrying an Stg44, plus two light machine gunners each with a pistol and an MG34 or MG42. The Platoon Commander and his two messengers were all to carry an Stg44, and there was one unallocated light machine gun. The third Rifle Platoon retained the same number of personnel and weapons as before, but slightly rearranged. The three rifle grenadiers were shown under Platoon HQ, with the Platoon commander and two messengers all having an MP40. The three Rifle Squads each consisted of an NCO with MP40 and seven men, armed with one MP40, five bolt action rifles, and a pistol and MG34/42 for the single light machine gunner.

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