Broken balance USF vs OST

Dusty you should make a guide

Working on it as we speak.

No.1 problem, as always, is the map design. Flanking is actually impossible on some maps. But since that's not gonna change (total map overhaul is unlikely) we can discuss other aspects.

I think both MP increase and moving HMG42 to T0 is a bit of an overkill, either place it in T0 or increase the MP. I favor the latter since T0 HMG comes ways to fast and can be setup aggressively in cut-offs and choke points.

But simply nerfing HMG42 will cripple Ostheer. Most of us agree that the problem is USF, and not only unit stats but the heavily restricted starting strats. You only have the option to spam rifles, and you get shut-down.

If I want to suggest changes for the USF, I would say first they have to add something like Oorah for Rifles, which also reduces incoming suppression (Does not break suppression, we don't want a vCoH Fire-Up) So you have a small window to react. You can't always use another squad to scout for your rifles. Second, give the some indirect fire options. There were some good ideas (although not balanced) in Alpha which haven't made it to live so far. I should add that if we are gonna see such changes to USF (i.e. buffing early game) Lt. tier should be delayed.

Both WFA are kinda a joke now

OKW is strong than it's ever been IMO now that the fucking gimmicks are gone and you actually have a reliable base unit (Sturms), a generalist medium to round out your forces (PIV) and recon to help plan flank (IR HT).

No.1 problem, as always, is the map design.

Give this man a medal. God the maps on 1's and 2's piss me off sometimes.

Soviets face roll OKW harder than before though (QUAD!!!) and Ostheer is wayyyy better than OKW. Sure OKW got buffed, but their only "good" when compared to the USF, the faction that sucks in big team games and (now) small games too.

And Dusty, thanks!

I don't know what it is but after patch OKW have become much harder for me as USF. Is it the Panzer IV providing them flexible armour options? Could it be more viable multi-Sturmpioneer squads? I have no idea but my veteran Riflemen with two BARs don't seem to be doing much versus veterancy four Sturmpioneers even when stationary.

I don't know what it is but after patch OKW have become much harder for me as USF. Is it the Panzer IV providing them flexible armour options? Could it be more viable multi-Sturmpioneer squads? I have no idea but my veteran Riflemen with two BARs don't seem to be doing much versus veterancy four Sturmpioneers even when stationary.

i think is because sturmpioneer is cheaper and faster to reinforce so it is less mp bleed for OKW, which lead to small snowball effect that OKW can bring more to the field from early to mid game, and OKW players start using them more aggressively than before. sturmpioneer is super powerful in early game if back by HMG or kurb, it force you to retreat your force soon as they got pinned because Sturmpioneer will tear pinned units in to pieces and cost serious mp bleed.

You must be amazing at this game! You should become a mentor and teach all of us how to play USF in 1s and 2s!

You can sign up here:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/36123/mentor-program-2015--mentor-sign-ups

Before getting excited about that, you should check Rollo's player card. His USF win/loss is 21/7, but it hasn't changed since the first time I checked it some months ago, meaning that he hasn't played USF 1v1 this patch, and probably not last patch. He played 5 total 3v3's and 4v4's as USF and won exactly zero (0) of the five games.

Looking at his overall win/loss, it's pretty good so I have no doubt he's a good player. However, given that he has no ranked games as USF since the new patch came out, he's probably giving you excellent advice on how to comp-stomp.

Before getting excited about that, you should check Rollo's player card. His USF win/loss is 21/7, but it hasn't changed since the first time I checked it some months ago, meaning that he hasn't played USF 1v1 this patch, and probably not last patch. He played 5 total 3v3's and 4v4's as USF and won exactly zero (0) of the five games.

Looking at his overall win/loss, it's pretty good so I have no doubt he's a good player. However, given that he has no ranked games as USF since the new patch came out, he's probably giving you excellent advice on how to comp-stomp.

It was sarcasm

It was sarcasm

I know, but your post was the best lead-in to expose Rollo. Rollo often talks about how USF is just fine, how he uses some tactic, and any complaints are just a l2p issue. Awesome talk for someone who is 0-5 in large team games as USF. (and yes, I know your record is much better than his)

I wouldnt mind a mortar with USF... But seems a bit silly now if we have a mortar, the pack, and the mortar halftrack... One of those will become useless and never used again.

I wouldnt mind a mortar with USF... But seems a bit silly now if we have a mortar, the pack, and the mortar halftrack... One of those will become useless and never used again.

I know I'm going to ditch the pack howitzer for the mortar.

Both the Leig and pack howizter have been disappointing since release.

They aren't bad now.

They aren't bad now.

No they are still pretty mediocre it's just that the LeiG is a lot cheaper now and can get scary while in numbers. Still would rather just have a regular mortar tho :/

Pack Howitzer is still a sure way to lose as USF. LEIG is ok purely because OKW is drowning in manpower at all stages in the game and it hits a lot even at max range even if it generally doesn't kill that much. Ostheer mortar is still twice the unit of either.

And on another note, after another fun night of games as USF racking up a cool streak, I'll just consider this an utterly dead faction with no actual win condition except "my opponent played extremely bad". Against either axis faction, not just Ostheer. Anyone want to prove me wrong can challenge me playing axis, you can choose the map AND starting positions.

Pack Howitzer is still a sure way to lose as USF. LEIG is ok purely because OKW is drowning in manpower at all stages in the game and it hits a lot even at max range even if it generally doesn't kill that much. Ostheer mortar is still twice the unit of either.

And on another note, after another fun night of games as USF racking up a cool streak, I'll just consider this an utterly dead faction with no actual win condition except "my opponent played extremely bad". Anyone want to prove me wrong can challenge me playing axis, you can choose the map AND starting positions.

Dusty seemed to have some success this past night, he would probably be willing to take you up on your challenge.

The reason USF bleeds is because it does not have base healing and the ambulance doesn't heal squads to 100%. Though you can take out the medics. In 1s the opponents always kill the ambu, they know they can just rush the USF base because of lack of mines.
USF floats when you support it with light vehicles or shermans. But the m20 and sherman haven't got the huge windows of use thanks to this patch. I'm happy they made captain cheaper and dealt with the sherman rush. But yeah, USF bleeds.

One other thing I don't like is the automatic upgrade on scout car. If I have been denying munitions with a plan on getting fast usf car it kills that start. Many times as axis I have been unable to upgrade to 222 because I was loose with my munitions and paid the price. Now I can be as loose as I want and it won't matter as long as I held some territory. Nope, not liking some of these changes... Bad relic bad...

Anyways, i watched dustys strim yesterday and what he basically did was not build any tanks at all, maybe only a few and instead just focused on making 3-4 rifles + 0.50 cals + bazookas with rear echelons +light vehicles + at guns + pak howitzers.

Basically he forced and tricked his opponents into making a lot of anti tank weaponry and then just spammed infantry


It might be a good idea since USF tanks just instantly die thanks to german anti tank laser beam technology

It's too early to say anything about balance. Try to test more and come back after.
Best way to play USF is 4 Rifles -> Cpt -> Stuart -> Pack Howitzer.
Stuart dominates Ostheer T1 T2. Even two Paks are not going to kill it and it counters FHT and Scout car. Pack howitzer deals good MP damage and forces the OH sniper to be more careful and thus less effective. LMGs are a must on most maps cuz they allow you to beat LMG Grens. I have to admit that late game is very difficult tho.

The .50 cal is so useful now that skipping LT is painful on some maps.

How should i deal with thanks + grens with lmg? major costs a silly amount of fuel for a unit that does almost nothing compared to a tank you could field with that amount of fuel spent. Grens with lmg destroy everything and they can pull out two tanks before i can even get one due to the major tax and the need to tech for nades that cost fuel. AT Guns do silly damage when they don't bounce off, and captain or zookas are not really enough vs sturmtiger and the such